Moore's K&B = Zinsser's Perma-White? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

**slickshift** · 01-04-2006, 10:39 AM

I need to paint an un-vented bathroom
I'd usually use Z's Perma-White (or Kitchen and Bath, same thing) in this situation (no fan/high humidity all year/wife and teenage girl that lose all sense of time when showering and think if it's not scalding, it's luke warm)

2 things

1) It needs to be a darker color than I'd normally do with the Z (light and pastels OK, but it doesn't play well with darker colors)

2) It really, really, needs to be mold/mildew res. type paint-I don't want to put a shot of something in some regular BM...I really want Z's P-W

I just opened an account at the local BM dealer (I'm new to the area)
He says Moore's K&B is the same as Z's P-W, but tints better

I'm willing to try it (it's my own house) but I'd like to know if that's true

Anyone use the Moore's K&B in an extreme humidity situation?
How does it hold-up/resist-mold/mildew?

AAPaint · 01-04-2006, 02:17 PM

I haven't used it in ages, but when I have used it the results have been pretty good. The key is how it holds up over time....when I was with the company that used BM exclusively we never had any complaints.

**ProWallGuy** · 01-04-2006, 06:22 PM

For medium to dark tones needed in high-humidity areas, I use either an eggshell, satin, or semi, and add my own mildew inhibitor. The one my supplier has is either Dial-X or Mildex. One is for int., one for ext., can't remember which for which.

BTW, this is all the K&B and Z Perma was, except they added it at the factory.
Mine is better, as I double the dose when adding. Make sure to price the paint out with a + for the inhibitor. My supplier adds it for me and throws it on the shaker when I order it.

**slickshift** · 01-04-2006, 10:21 PM

Thanks guys

PWG, for a customer, normally that's what I'd do
Have Andy add a shot to the eggshell, satin, or semi
But in this particular case, with no fan, the shower where it is, two long hot shower lovers, in a high humidity area, I'd have to have them sign a waiver
Which, since it's my bathroom, I suppose I'll have to sign if I'm going to paint it
I just know from personal experience, the Z P-W would be up to this task

I may throw the Moore's KB on it straight, and see if it's up to it

Now I guess I better sign one of my M/M waivers so I can get started
Lol

**ProWallGuy** · 01-04-2006, 11:23 PM

For a customer, don't forget a nice clause in your contract:

DISCLAIMER NOTICE: WORK TO BE DONE AS SPECIFIED, IN A PROFESSIONAL MANNER, TO NORMALLY ACCEPTED INDUSTRY STANDARDS. NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTS OF GOD, UNAVAILABLE MATERIALS, WORK STOPPAGES, RIOTS, MISCHIEF, OR THEFTS; WHICH ARE OUTSIDE OF THE CONTRACTORS CONTROL. MOLD/FUNGUS IS A NATURALLY OCCURING ORGANISM THAT I AS A CONTRACTOR HAVE NO CONTROL OVER; THE CONTRACTOR WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR RECURRENCE/GROWTH OF ANY FORM OR TYPE OF MOLD/FUNGI.

But since its for your old lady, your screwed.

**slickshift** · 01-05-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProWallGuy

But since its for your old lady, your screwed.

Yeah I loved your disclaimer
I must have seen it posted or you sent it to me
It's in the folder, I'm going to have a local lawyer check over my new contracts, with all the new notes, and make sure it works for this state
I had to put in some weird stuff for this state (well, weird because I didn't have the state telling me what had to be in the contract before)
The rules and regs here are pretty different

**slickshift** · 01-12-2006, 10:44 PM

Well it's up
I did it straight to see what it could do
The color looks great
The coverage wasn't too bad, though I'll have to wet a brush for a third coat of cut-in near some tile, just a foot
Dried nice
It only took me a half hour (maybe an hour) to paint so I wasn't going to second coat the next day
I threw my Mr. Heater Big Buddy in there, opened up the window a crack and it dried great
The second coat held like a champ
It's unbelievably humid up here so I was half expecting a sag with me pushing it like that
It sure doesn't smell like Z's P-W
Hardly smells at all
We'll see how well it resist mold and mildew over the next month or two
Thanks guys

Humble Abode · 01-12-2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProWallGuy

BTW, this is all the K&B and Z Perma was, except they added it at the factory.
Mine is better, as I double the dose when adding. Make sure to price the paint out with a + for the inhibitor. My supplier adds it for me and throws it on the shaker when I order it.

Thanks for the heads up PWG. I was wondering if that stuff was as good as the stuff from the factory.

old27 · 01-12-2006, 11:47 PM

Just curious...Why didn't you vent the bathroom? Not trying to break'em; as irony would have it, I have a similar job (freebie) coming up at my brother's house...later.

-old

**slickshift** · 01-13-2006, 12:02 AM

Oh, it'll be vented
It's just a little lower on the list
I still have some doors that won't shut, some insulation, a few fixtures and some leaks to take care of
She's got a fan/light all picked out already

We lived in a rental before (I wasn't going to buy and install a fan for a rental), and the bath also had a washing machine in it
That place was also on the water
So with these two and their showers, and the washing machine, and the climate I had to X-14 that bathroom every six weeks or so
After the Z's P-W I didn't have to mildecide for...well, never, not in two years
I saw this bath had no vent and figured I wouldn't get to it for a while

The other things are coming along though, and the bath really needs a fan
I may get to it sooner rather than later
...not sure I want to cut a hole in the roof though, I just paid a lot for that roof lol

**slickshift** · 01-13-2006, 12:10 AM

All in all, I'd have to say the BM's K&B and the Z's P-W seem to act and smell like different animals
Both of which are also a little different than quality BM with a shot
I prefer applying the BM with a shot
The Z's P-W kicks it with the mildew resistance though
We'll see how the BM K&B holds up in that regard

**slickshift** · 01-18-2006, 07:43 AM

I found a local supplier for Zinsser
(

)
Time for a side by side...

I used Perma-White in the Kitchen
In some ways the Moore's K&B and Z's P-W act the same (a tendency towards bubbles, slightly thinner and more tendency to drip/splatter than regular premium paints)
The application, though both are slightly different (coverage, adhesion)

Obviously I haven't tested the mold and mildew resistance, so time will tell

M's K&B and Z's P-W seem to be in the same family, but not exactly the same

George Z · 01-18-2006, 08:29 PM

Have used both in the same large area (not in a bathroom).
I was there last week, I could not tell the difference. They both passed
the "fingernail scratch" adhession test.

**ProWallGuy** · 01-18-2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

They both passed
the "fingernail scratch" adhession test.

George, do you ever do the 'X' adhesion test?

George Z · 01-18-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProWallGuy

George, do you ever do the 'X' adhesion test?

I have done it sometimes.
This scratch "test" was to see how our paint stuck without super adherent or oil primer.
Behind furniture, discreetly.
The tape and X might be overkill today. I haven't done it for years.
A lot of paints will fail that, but really, the way people use their walls today,
how many people will abuse their walls that much, to require paint removal
and even pay for it? And the type of customers we want, change decor
or move so often, they couldn't care less about indestructible walls.

PlainPainter · 01-18-2006, 10:28 PM

I hope you primed your bathroom before you painted it. I have real world experience in this. The moisture will make the paint crack and then peel off.

-Plainpainter

**ProWallGuy** · 01-18-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

The tape and X might be overkill today. I haven't done it for years.

I do for every wallpaper install, especially in older homes. I think wallcovering has much more pull when it dries as compared to paint. I rarely do it for paint jobs though, unless I'm already concerned about failure of previous layers.

**slickshift** · 01-20-2006, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlainPainter

I hope you primed your bathroom before you painted it. I have real world experience in this. The moisture will make the paint crack and then peel off.

No, I did it straight up
The Z's P-W does not need any priming, even in the worst environment (still needs prep though)
I wanted to compare the K&B to the P-W so, no primer

**slickshift** · 01-20-2006, 07:46 AM

I do the "wack it with the butt of my putty knife" test....(wack the wall you pervs)

What's the "X" adhesion test?