May be redundant on pricing - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

jwaldman97 · 09-24-2006, 12:16 PM

Got some figures from a paint estimator for interior painting.

Walls - .30 per linear foot (height + length)

Ceilings - .25 per sq foot

OK, now here's the question.......on a 15x15 room with 10' ceilings....what's the linear foot and how did you figure that?

Am I better off just pricing for square foot? In your square foot price.....is that including trim, windows and doors? Is that heated sq ft or sq ft under roof?

Around here painters usually charge 2.00 per sq and they supply materials. That covers all trim and windows/doors. Stairs are sometimes extra. Not too many have good reputations for being quality or dependable.

The exterior prices vary so much and even the generals I talked to have no clue how they get the figures since most are all brick anyway so it's just the trim/cornish that's painted.

I'm bidding on 14 houses that have one small cathedral and some exposed beams. I don't have to mess with the stairs. And it's two piece crown.

I know the owner from when I was a building inspector and know that I have some leeway with getting extra monies if I have a problem or run into something unforseen, but I'd rather go in being comfortable with a number and assuring a LONG TERM relationship.

THis is the same project calling for the slurry, but we're going into that T&M. Cause it's a first for the owner too.

Brushslingers · 09-24-2006, 12:47 PM

Uhhhhhh, what?

I can't tell if you are replying to someone or asking a question........

Richard · 09-24-2006, 03:01 PM

I'm trying to figure out what all the hype is about bidding by square foot. I do just fine without all the measuring. Are you all bidding new construction or something? Is this the "in" thing to do?

Brushslingers · 09-24-2006, 03:38 PM

Paintguy,

Bidding by square foot is by no means "new", i've been taught that way and have used it that way for almost 30 years. Basically it cuts down on guesswork for me, not sure how you do it but there is a certain square foot that paint will cover, if you don't measure you'll end up either short on paint, too much paint or a dam good guesser. It also keeps me aware of slogging crews (time data for how many sqaure per day), and allows me to make more money if my crews move faster than they are supposed to. It's easier on the accountant, as I don't have to explain why this job took 5 gallons more than the same type of house than that job, and it levels me... keeps me grounded, with a set system of my prices. If you need to go up on your prices and charge by the job, how do you track it? I can adjust as little as 2 cents and track it. Besides, since i've been doing this so long I don't measure either, I can look at a room and say "11X12, 8 foot ceilings" and almost always, the HO will look at me really strange and say... well, ya.

Some people bid per hour, or per job... but, those are the benes for me in square foot bidding. Now, per square footAGE of new homes, thats a completly different animal, that is simply lumping 11000 or more square feet into one little package, no matter the sqaure of the walls.

Linear, normally refers to trim, there is no way to compute linear feet in the above described method and get a price, hence... my confusion on wtf he's asking. Height X Length is square feet, Height + Length is not linear, nor square.

Richard · 09-24-2006, 03:58 PM

I'm not saying I dont measure to figure out the paint needed. I'm saying I dont do the whole 'charging by the square foot' thing, that's all. Should I consider it? I am open to learning, if it will really help me. My question is....will it?

Brushslingers · 09-24-2006, 04:10 PM

Your question can be answered by the post though.. can those benefits help you in any way or are you really just gonna be on your own, stay small and will bid to make what you need, or maybe George Z can tell you how to do it per hour basis.. which I still don't understand. How are you bidding now? How are you figureing paint quanities? Or how much caulk to use?

jwaldman97 · 09-24-2006, 05:55 PM

Brushslinger.....

Does your sq ft cover trim, balcony/stair handrails, or an exposed wood that needs staining and treating?

jwaldman97 · 09-24-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintguy26

I'm trying to figure out what all the hype is about bidding by square foot. I do just fine without all the measuring. Are you all bidding new construction or something? Is this the "in" thing to do?

From what I'm gathering in this area, all the painters are doing sq feet. And I'm not even sure if they're going by heated feet, finished space feet or under roof feet. I can't see how they can figure and be close when there are so many variables in each home.

I do know that the prices charged by the painters here do NOT include ceilings as they are mostly done in texture by the drywall crews.

Brushslingers · 09-24-2006, 06:18 PM

See J, your confusing square FOOTAGE prices with square foot. In new construction you have a sqaure FOOTAGE price with upgrades for stain, railings, ceilings included etc... in square foot prices it's per job and broken down from there for ceilings. New constuction prices and re-paint prices should never ever ever be linked together. There is so much difference between the two it's like comparing commercial to residential... it just isn't the same.

jwaldman97 · 09-24-2006, 06:37 PM

Yes it's new construction. I was told I don't have to do stairs. But I will have two piece crown, exposed beams and railings.

I'm an Electrician by trade and have been tossing this painting idea around for a while. There are three guys on my crew, apprentices, who have done painting for years and are anxious to get this division off the ground. I guess they don't like electric, but like working.

This bid is important on getting the division started, and not losing my butt on it will ensure some kind of longevity and continuance.

So please bear with the questions.

Brushslingers · 09-24-2006, 06:41 PM

Question away, just don't try to stuff too much in one question

Oh and btw, normally it's under roof space, including the garage unless stated in the contract, new builders have thier magic number per square footage that they can work with. Hell most commercial builders do as well.

rws · 09-24-2006, 06:48 PM

I think the best way to run a painting business is to know how much you are going to make on a job before you start.Paul Burns does this by piece work.I do it by measuring all surfaces to be painted and paying hourly.I know how many sq. ft my slowest painter can cut and roll in an hour and how many linear ft of trim he can do per hour.I know how long it will take him to apply one coat of paint to a 6 over 6 window.I also check times every day and if there is a problem we fix it.

rws · 09-24-2006, 06:52 PM

I do think pauls way is better though.

Richard · 09-24-2006, 06:55 PM

Rws..

I like your style. It's simple and easy to understand. Sounds just like the way I do things. Measuring sections and simply knowing how long things will take.

jwaldman97 · 09-24-2006, 06:58 PM

I guess I could've picked an easier project to get started with. I was in the office signing the contract for the electric bid and they asked if I knew any dependable painters and it snowballed from there.

Now with the slurry stuff, my one guy has done it before, actually a couple times on commercial, so that's not gonna be a problem. Time consuming, but not over our heads.

We had an adder for electric right from the start, there's close to 100 recess cans in a 2500 sq ft house.

It's a unique project to say the least. I'll be speaking with the general tomorrow and i'm sure I'll be back on asking more questions.

Thanks!