Low Balling - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Miller · 10-27-2007, 01:09 PM

Just heard back from a Estimate I did last wk. My bid was for $2,670 a job that would take 4-5 days. whole main level of a house, High ceilings and a lot of patching to do from the cats tearing up the walls. She had someone give her a estimate for $1,100. Oh well, I couldn't afford to compete with that.

Have another Job I would be interested to see what others would do it for. 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. One Bed room was 320sq, 2nd was 410sq.,3rd is 315sq. and 4th is 340sq. The 1st 3 rooms will just require 2 coats without primer and the 4th will need a primer due to the color that is on there now and the color there going to. One bathroom is small with no shower, will need to repair a crack above the door and a crack in one of the corners. The other 2 bathrooms are good size, Walk in and theres the sink and bath and then go in another door and theres the toilet. Both have good size cracks above the door that will need to be scraped and re-patched. My Bid was for $2,690 and I'm just trying to get a rough idea on what others would bid? I know its tough with out seeing the job and just a brief description, just throw out a rough #. Just wondering what others would bid. Forgot to mention the sq. for the rooms is wall space.
All rooms will be a Different color.

Thanks,

HUDSONVALLEYEXT · 10-27-2007, 03:39 PM

Your number of $2,690 sounds good to me. But there is always someone who will low ball your price. I hope the first customer that went with the lower guy gets a bomb job.

aWorkaHolic · 10-27-2007, 04:43 PM

Miller, hang in there. Your estimate seems pretty fair. There are allot of fly-by-night outfits popping up out of the wood works. It's part of this industry.

Miller · 10-27-2007, 04:44 PM

Yea I hear ya with the low ballers... It does suck but i guess the Home owner will get what they paid for!!! Yea I just like to hear what others would charge, I don't feel my prices are too high or too low.

Thanks for the feed back.

ModernStyle · 10-27-2007, 07:30 PM

I like to throw out the " I completely understand that you would like to go with the lower estimate, normally I do only higher end homes where people can afford quality, so i am not at all surprised by your decision"
Go hire the lowball guy and pay him usual rates and pocket the rest on your next job.

plazaman · 10-27-2007, 10:45 PM

couple of things,
The customer is obviously more concerned with price vs quality.
Or the customer is like many of the customers i deal with in NYC who think paint is just paint and nothing more (i rarely ever paint houses in NYC except for flip houses )

if the customer was smart enough, they should question why such a huge difference in price? Are we comparing apples to apples?

if the customer decides to go with the $1,100 bid, they soon realize why they should have gone with your bid.

Did they question your bid as to why such a huge price difference? Us here know the prep work involved, but they might not.

Dont worry about it, move onto the next, so many other customers out there.

Dave Mac · 10-28-2007, 07:55 AM

Most lowballers dont have insurance papers, I make sure the client is aware of that.

paintr56 · 10-28-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller

Just heard back from a Estimate I did last wk. My bid was for $2,670 a job that would take 4-5 days. whole main level of a house, High ceilings and a lot of patching to do from the cats tearing up the walls. She had someone give her a estimate for $1,100. Oh well, I couldn't afford to compete with that.

Have another Job I would be interested to see what others would do it for. 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. One Bed room was 320sq, 2nd was 410sq.,3rd is 315sq. and 4th is 340sq. The 1st 3 rooms will just require 2 coats without primer and the 4th will need a primer due to the color that is on there now and the color there going to. One bathroom is small with no shower, will need to repair a crack above the door and a crack in one of the corners. The other 2 bathrooms are good size, Walk in and theres the sink and bath and then go in another door and theres the toilet. Both have good size cracks above the door that will need to be scraped and re-patched. My Bid was for $2,690 and I'm just trying to get a rough idea on what others would bid? I know its tough with out seeing the job and just a brief description, just throw out a rough #. Just wondering what others would bid. Forgot to mention the sq. for the rooms is wall space.
All rooms will be a Different color.

Thanks,

I punched in $425 per bedroom and $325 per bath room both goood starting points for a bid then adjust according to accual conditions. came out $2675 so you sound good.

Jim

premierpainter · 10-28-2007, 10:01 AM

Miller...are you guessing your bids or do you have a system? $20 off on two totally "sounding" different jobs seems like your pulling numbers outta the air.

thom · 10-28-2007, 10:12 AM

With the industry in a downturn, lots of guys have been laid off. These guys will bid work for friends, relatives, friends of friends and relatives etc. Their price point is what they would have made working for you, after taxes. They are only looking at the work, by the hour, not including any markup, insurance, time to get materials, etc. The quality of their work product is as good as what they were doing before being laid off. Like all of us, they're trying to make a living.

Learn to live with it because it's going to be the way it is for a while. Those of us who have been around a long time have seen it before.

Brian · 10-28-2007, 03:04 PM

I get low balled on every job. Yet I still sell lots of work.

There is McDonald's and there is Fuddruckers. Both sell hamburgers, but their prices are much different. Some people want McDonald's and some want Fuddruckers. I aim for the Fuddruckers people.

The low ballers won't be low balling long. They will soon be out of business, but unfortunately, there is a long waiting list of people to take their place. If you wait for that to change, you will be waiting a very long time-- like forever.

There are worse things in life than losing a job to a low baller.

If you market your company properly, low ballers are much like a gnat-- annoying but no real danger. If you market your company properly, low ballers won't hurt you.

Brian Phillips

dougchips · 10-28-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thom

With the industry in a downturn, lots of guys have been laid off. These guys will bid work for friends, relatives, friends of friends and relatives etc. Their price point is what they would have made working for you, after taxes. They are only looking at the work, by the hour, not including any markup, insurance, time to get materials, etc. The quality of their work product is as good as what they were doing before being laid off. Like all of us, they're trying to make a living.

Learn to live with it because it's going to be the way it is for a while. Those of us who have been around a long time have seen it before.

I think that we all forget that they are humans.....

Miller · 10-28-2007, 04:00 PM

No I actually track all my jobs and do have #'s. The reason the Bedrooms and bathrooms are the price they are at is cause the prep and patch work dealing with the cracks. Also due to using different colors in every bathroom and bedroom. Yes I'm new in business and doing bids but I do feel I have been tracking my previous jobs fairly well. That is a good question though.

Thanks for all the feedback...

Yea the 1st on for $1100 a friend of the family was going to do it for them and by the sounds of it is not a painter and has no insurance. So my guess is it won't turn out that well.

Brian · 10-28-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thom

Like all of us, they're trying to make a living.

I'm not trying to make a living, I'm trying to build a business. If I wanted to make a living, I'd be working for someone else.

I think too many "business owners" are trying to make a living. All they have is a job, not a business. They don't know what they are doing, and drive down the "going rate". They price their services as if they were an employee, rather than the owner of a business.

Brian Phillips

Miller · 10-28-2007, 04:08 PM

No I actually track all my jobs and do have #'s. The reason the Bedrooms and bathrooms are the price they are at is cause the prep and patch work dealing with the cracks. Also due to using different colors in every bathroom and bedroom. Yes I'm new in business and doing bids but I do feel I have been tracking my previous jobs fairly well. That is a good question though.

Thanks for all the feedback...

Yea the 1st on for $1100 a friend of the family was going to do it for them and by the sounds of it is not a painter and has no insurance. So my guess is it won't turn out that well.

dirt diggler · 10-28-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller

Just heard back from a Estimate I did last wk. My bid was for $2,670 a job that would take 4-5 days. whole main level of a house, High ceilings and a lot of patching to do from the cats tearing up the walls. She had someone give her a estimate for $1,100. Oh well, I couldn't afford to compete with that.

honestly, i'd say $2,700 is low for a week's worth of work.... but maybe it works for you. at least for now ...

to the guy who bid in for $1100 - he deserves to be poor

ModernStyle · 10-28-2007, 08:05 PM

Alot of the low ballers I know usually run into trouble once all the equipment and materials they stole from their last or current employer run out. They forget that tape, brushes, roller, plastic, caulk, patch, etc, all cost money. They like to bid jobs using only hours and paint as the factors ......... silly rabbits. If you can talk the talk then you will get the better jobs, most of your lowballers know nothing other then latex cleans up with water and alkyd cleans up with thinner. You throw out some big words and some technical terms, pretty soon they realize that you actually do this for more then beer money. Presentation is the key, if you look good, sound intelligent, and know just what to say then you are in there. Sure the guy who pulls up in a 1989 Cavalier wearing dirty jeans and smelling of marijuana might take a few jobs from you, but in the end he is pretty much just taking the customers that would have been PITA anyways, the cheap ones always are.

johnthepainter · 10-28-2007, 08:25 PM

brian>>>>thats some good advice,,,,if you market your company properly, lowballers wont hurt you

sometimes i just ask a NEW customer what it is they are looking for,,,,,low price or quality

quite often they will tell you>>>quality

qualify your customers