Love This Quality

Teetorbilt

40 yrs. ago we called this a 'Mary Carter overhaul'. It was the best that we could do with limited funds from people that could not afford much. We all made out a little bit. We also did a better job, belt sanders were a lot more popular then.

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regal

I dont mean the workers health, I meant if a neighbors window was open next to a project, or if children are inside the house thats being worked on, things like that.

Cole

Thats the problem with our industry! 90% of homeowners doesn't know what a hack job looks like, it is our job to educate them on it.

If that was me, I would have pointed out every flaw to her.

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PlainPainter

daArch - you talked about the fine line of giving crap work and going overboard. I sometimes wonder if I go overboard with my exterior restoration/painting work. I use a turbo nozzle pressure washer and knock off as much paint I can. Then I scrape all the areas with those Bahco carbide scrapers. Then I go over all the scraped areas with that porter-cable paint remover - the one with the tungsten/carbide metal pucks. Then I finish off with the palm sander. This is for a 120 yr. old new england colonial - and spent 385 man hrs, which included a garage - deck restoration - complete rust removal of their iron balustrades on the front porch -etc. It's a great job - but I wonder if I should do either a scraping - or sell them on a complete chemical paint removal. At $45/hr - these paint jobs need to be 20k.

neolitic

I was just gonna bring that up. In case anyone hasn't seen it before,
http://www.deltaportercable.com/Prod...Path=4272.4306
There a two yards that rent them here, but if this is what you do everyday, nothing beats it on lap siding. IMHO

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a2zhandi

Forgive my ignorance but I'm a bit confused. Theres a conflict of interest in the interior rooms you describe and the pics you've taken. Obviously there was more than just two interior rooms for the quoted $4k

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THINKPAINTING

We just finshed 2 rooms dining &l iving room in a -Holder B Durfee house built in late 1700's its located not far from Lizzie Bordens house.......

Scope of work was simular to your painters, horsehair plaster, strip paper
etc.

Our budget was $6500...not to exceed $8000.

$4000 was a very fair price for your job.

We just priced a room in home in Needham Ma , 3 colors in a kids 14x16 bedroom. Have to move all furniture put back in place end of work day
cover floors, apply bottom color -top color -and then middle color so you only mask once.

Homeowner said her brotherinlaw is a painter but always very busy his price was $750.00 with paint....................no wonder he is busy......

PlainPainter

I won't do an average 14x16 repaint for a penny less than a grand these days - and probably more! What I don't understand about most guys - is that if they want to make $40-$45/man-hour and give or take $200-$400 for materials each week - you have to gross 2k in sales a week! The average room takes me a minimum of half a week to do - I did a 12x13 bedroom with some wallpaper/border removal - sanded, washed walls with TSP - two windows - freaking thing took 20 hrs of labor - that's half a week! IT's hard being in this business - just too many guys that don't know their numbers to compete with. Even if you were busy every single theoretical billable hr of the year - and billed customers at a rate of $25/man-hour - which is pimple on the azz cheap for a legit contractor - your salary would probably be $12 max per hour - your gross sales for your company would be 50k. That's day in day out always having every day 8 hours of work. And now remove every single expense for operating a company - like truck repairs, cell phones, gas, equipment costs, liability insurance, commercial auto insurance, health insurance - what would be left? And what if - like me, you never get in a full 8 hrs of work - and what if, you are 'bidding' on those rates - and like me don't make the mark - not even getting a guaranteed $25/hr contractor rate.
I'd say those guys would be lucky to make 10g's a year. I don't know how they do it?

ModernStyle

I grew up on lead paint chips. we were poor and couldnt afford Pringles. Sure I am a little slower in the head then most people, but .......... what was i saying ?

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THINKPAINTING

I could not agree more, been saying the same thing for yrs...good to hear ya.

daArch

Answer: They do NOT do it for very long. At that point it's below "hobby" status.

There's a big move on to educate the independent as to the REAL cost of doing business. It basically boils down that if you charge $60/hr for "at the wall" time, when you add in ALL the time spent at your profession (telephone calls, going out on estimates, figuring estimates, buying supplies, all the paper work, etc etc etc) , PLUS the tangible costs of doing business (insurance, auto, workers comp, materials, tools, software, office , etc etc) you will find your hourly wage to be between $30 and $40 dollars an hour. If you have doubts or interest, spend two weeks and write down EVERY minute you spend related to your profession (BTW, participation in this forum DOES count - you ARE learning & teaching). Keep track of ALL your expenses. And figure it out.

Those who bill themselves out at $25/hour will NOT be in business in three years time. Now THERE'S another selling point to the customer. "Yup, I charge twice as much as Xanadu painters, but I've been in business for 20 years and will be here long after they've gone under - or gone back to college"

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daArch

Now it's time to ask my forgiveness for being cornfuzed.

Where do you see a conflict of interest?

And why "obviously" was there more than "just" two interior rooms ?? I really thought I described the scope of the work pretty well.

But then again, perhaps I shan't even get into defending another craftsman business or estimate. That's between he and the customer. I was just using it to illustrate a point. AND as I mentioned he did bring the price down a little - to about $3200. I've already chastised him for that <G>

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PlainPainter

I've been trying to charge $45/hr of At the wall time - and having a hard time trying to compete with all these other guys. then again my business model is different - I am either by myself or just one other guy - and focus on quality.
If I had a crew of like 6 guys - could you realistly expect to charge homeowners $60/man-hours per each guy - unless of course they were 'mechanic' level type painters?

shed-n-deck

I agree whole heartedly. I spent 12 hours running around on Friday. Didn't touch a single job, just ran around. I have 6 jobs going on(had on Friday), went and bid a few, bought materials for one, then went and bought materials for another, then did another bid.....An entire day, 12 hours of my time, not working....That costs a bit of money.

I just don't understand how your referral could hope to make any money with only bidding $3200 for a job that will take 2 people 2 weeks...I hope that doesn't include materials costs.

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THINKPAINTING

[quote=PlainPainter;314596]I've been trying to charge $45/hr of At the wall time - and having a hard time trying to compete with all these other guys. then again my business model is different - I am either by myself or just one other guy - and focus on quality.
If I had a crew of like 6 guys - could you realistly expect to charge homeowners $60/man-hours per each guy - unless of course they were 'mechanic' level type painters?[/quote

Back in the day we had apprentice , and helpers who learned how to become mechanic's and were proud to be one.

Today everyone is a painter just ask them...............

Dibs

Really LOL...How come I feel we went to different schools together!

premierpainter

Dear God, you have some hatred for those guys

ModernStyle

Hatred makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Life isnt all puppy dog kisses and gum drops, somtimes you have to hit people over the head with shovels.

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THINKPAINTING

I dont hate them, but they are destoying the trade and taking jobs from Americans.

There are 3 new companys in my area which are all illegal workers and owners.

They look at us like we are the stangers in this country and they belong here.

You will be effected by them one way or another its just a matter of time. Certa Pro just painted the owners house of a big sport franchise outside of Boston, all illegals every worker, foreman, etc.

Was a nice job , one which we would normally get, but they underbid the job by 40%...............

I could go on and on........we are being invaded and the borders have to be closed...............period.

SUPPORT AMERICAN WORKERS AND THERE FAMILYS.............

ModernStyle

Dont waste your time trying to turn these illegals in, you have a better chance of winning the lottery then you do of immigration deporting anyone.

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