Louvered Shutters. 2x8 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

prolinefinishes · 12-01-2005, 09:36 PM

painted 10 louvered shutters. Sprayed, 2 coats primer 2 coats finish.
Was thinking 400.00, which included materials. This sound fair? Not trying tolowball him or myself, but its the first time i've done em where they were not included in the whole package.

Thanks!

Steve

**ProWallGuy** · 12-01-2005, 09:58 PM

What were the total manhours to complete the job, and what did the materials come up to?

prolinefinishes · 12-01-2005, 10:17 PM

Materials was roughly 100. Total Manhours, not including waiting for them to dry to recoat, is about 4. ya know, can ya really include going back every 10-15 minutes until they are dry? So with that said, about 4 hours

**ProWallGuy** · 12-01-2005, 11:05 PM

Well, if you had to leave and come back for each coat, then I'd say it was low.
If you stayed onsite doing other tasks, then that price was nice.

prolinefinishes · 12-02-2005, 03:18 PM

picked em up, brought em to and sprayed em out in garage, took em back. so how much more would you charge for that?

Steve

**ProWallGuy** · 12-02-2005, 04:01 PM

Your price sounds OK. Low hassle, do at your convenience. $400 ain't bad at all.

prolinefinishes · 12-02-2005, 04:29 PM

That's what i was thinking. Thanks for the reassurance on my decision

Steve

dwbrooks · 12-03-2005, 01:33 PM

Good Bid in my opinion. A friend of mine that is also a painting contractor just did a similar project. 24- 2x6 new shutters 1 coat oil primer and 2 coats latex, and then rehung them on a two story home. Materials were covered by customer. Price $350 Too low in my opinion. We live in a cut-throat area though, often times in the painting ads in the paper you'll find an add like this....

Average sized bedroom, two coats for $125, 20 yrs experiance, insured and so on.

Very cut-throat in my opinion, people like that are driving me broke.

**slickshift** · 12-03-2005, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwbrooks

Average sized bedroom, two coats for $125, 20 yrs experience, insured and so on.

How does that work?
I know the oil change places, it's not worth the liability to pop your hood open with an 20 dollar oil change

It's just that some places started that, and were told to find something else wrong with the car during the free inspection while it's on the lift on the lift
It's not to hard to find something that could be replaced

Now the good guys have to do the cheapo oil change to compete
They tend to "write that off" and hope you are happy and come back when you need other service

I know in the shadier bedding chains that the $200 Queen mattress set in the flyer cannot be ordered over the phone, and when you walk in it's in the corner, looks like dirt, and "can be ordered, it'll take 4 weeks
"But here, you can have this one tomorrow"

How does that work with a room to be painted?
I mean, thats not just a $40 oil change for $20, that's a big deal
It's not a mattress that if you insist on ordering they can now say "oh yeah, it's $100 to deliver it....or you can pick it up at our warehouse for $60"

Do they have enough restrictions that very few can actually use the $125 service?
"Oh you have windows and doors? That's extra"
How does that work?
They can't be making any money on those, and you can't stay in business losing money
I truly doubt anyone who wants you to paint a room or $125 will say, "Nice job on that room, I'll give you $600 to do the living room now"

They can't really be painting rooms for $125 can they?
What's the deal with that?

Hmmm...maybe this should be a new thread...

AAPaint · 12-03-2005, 07:00 PM

My advice would be don't bother trying to compete with those people. Find the customers that are willing to pay what it costs to have a professional paint their home. If they're advertising work that cheap, they're a hack or it's a gimmick. No two ways about it.

Bark up a different tree. I'm doing a job now where I beat out a larger paint company with fancy lettered trucks, lots of employees, big name, professionaly done website, etc.....Customer even had the other estimator show up during my estimate. He said "oh, you're competition is here to do another estimate for me..." I said, "they are not my competition, they can't offer the kind of service I can. I'm the owner, and I do all the work...if a problem arises, you speak directly to me....etc, etc." I guarantee I wasn't any cheaper than them either....you need to distance yourself from the cheap guys and show your customers the true value of using a professional that they can rely on. Sell the things that benefit the customer and sell it right, soon you'll see your competition melt away.

dwbrooks · 12-03-2005, 10:11 PM

As much as I dont like to hear it or say it, Yes there are plenty of painters that will do a bedroom for $125 dollars in my area.

I dought this includes any prep other than nail/pin hole patching. If they buy lower grade paint at Sherwin for around $12 which is what I get promar 400 at they have approx $25 in paint costs and $100 left for labor.
If the guy can get the room done in 3 hrs thats $33 an hour. I imagine this is their logic. They have little to no overhead, and most likely not paying taxes on most of there work.

I agree that if you'd like to make more you have to target customers willing to pay more.

**slickshift** · 12-03-2005, 10:39 PM

Boy they must be "borrowing" someone's ins./lic. #s too

George Z · 12-04-2005, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwbrooks

As much as I dont like to hear it or say it, Yes there are plenty of painters that will do a bedroom for $125 dollars in my area.

I dought this includes any prep other than nail/pin hole patching. If they buy lower grade paint at Sherwin for around $12 which is what I get promar 400 at they have approx $25 in paint costs and $100 left for labor.
If the guy can get the room done in 3 hrs thats $33 an hour. I imagine this is their logic. They have little to no overhead, and most likely not paying taxes on most of there work.

I agree that if you'd like to make more you have to target customers willing to pay more.

"They have little to no overhead"

They think so. Most people think larger companies have more overhead.
More overhead, sure. They also have more manhours per year to recover
it from. You find that the more people you hire, the smaller the percentage
from each hour is overhead.

dwbrooks · 12-04-2005, 10:57 AM

Overhead for the $125 dollar a room painter=

1 paint brush
1 roller frame and cover
5 gallon bucket and grid
drop cloth
5 in 1
4 ft ladder
a few odds and ends.
Total Cost....$75

I'm not trying to be argumentive guys and I dislike the undercutters as much as anyone. The truth of the mattter that they will always be undercutters and painting is more vunerable than almost any trade. Why, Because theres very little start-up cost and almost anyone can paint to some extent. I know theres a large differance between a pro painter and someone that likes to call themselves one. Nonetheless plenty of people assume they can paint. Not so many people assume they can go wire a house or put plumbing in.

Like it was said earlier you need to focus on the people willing to pay for quility and service.

**ProWallGuy** · 12-04-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwbrooks

I'm not trying to be argumentive guys and I dislike the undercutters as much as anyone. The truth of the mattter that they will always be undercutters and painting is more vunerable than almost any trade. Why, Because theres very little start-up cost and almost anyone can paint to some extent. I know theres a large differance between a pro painter and someone that likes to call themselves one. Nonetheless plenty of people assume they can paint. Not so many people assume they can go wire a house or put plumbing in.

Like it was said earlier you need to focus on the people willing to pay for quility and service.

Word.

George Z · 12-04-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwbrooks

Overhead for the $125 dollar a room painter=

1 paint brush
1 roller frame and cover
5 gallon bucket and grid
drop cloth
5 in 1
4 ft ladder
a few odds and ends.
Total Cost....$75

I'm not trying to be argumentive guys and I dislike the undercutters as much as anyone. The truth of the mattter that they will always be undercutters and painting is more vunerable than almost any trade. Why, Because theres very little start-up cost and almost anyone can paint to some extent. I know theres a large differance between a pro painter and someone that likes to call themselves one. Nonetheless plenty of people assume they can paint. Not so many people assume they can go wire a house or put plumbing in.

Like it was said earlier you need to focus on the people willing to pay for quility and service.

"often times in the painting ads in the paper you'll find an add like this....

Average sized bedroom, two coats for $125, 20 yrs experiance, insured and so on. "

Ads in paper are not free.
Vehicle expenses, maintenance, gas to get to jobs,
estimating expenses(at least a visit),
trip to paint store,
a phone line, maybe a cell phone, some business cards (hopefuly)

Overhead is more than these people think.
They just like to work for free.
I agree, they are not competition.

They are overhead

**ProWallGuy** · 12-04-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

I agree, they are not competition.

They are overhead

Profound statement of the day.

**slickshift** · 12-04-2005, 04:59 PM

They are not competition
They are overhead

Sounds like "All your base are belong to us"
http://www.planettribes.com/allyourb...eo1_view.shtml

lol

I still don't get it
There's no catch, no upsell?
No..."Oh, you've got carpet, drop cloths are extra"?
They are just doing it? ...and and making money?...or at least staying in business?

I mean, I know a crack addict
He's decided now he's a painter
I wouldn't be suprised if he'd do a quickie job on a room for $125 bucks cash
But good lord he's addicted to crack, there's probably not much he wouldn't do for $125 bucks cash ya know
He sure as heck doesn't have it together enough to put an ad in the paper
...or pay rent besides for a futon matt in someone's garage

Proline, I appologize for the hijack, but as your question has been answered, I hope you don't mind too much
Nice new avatar btw

**slickshift** · 12-04-2005, 05:07 PM

I was just thinking, to put this in perspective, the avg. room, 2 coat repaint from a reputable company would be around $600 around here
That wouldn't be the highest quote, but a good one from a good company

If the going rate for same in your area(s) is...um....$250, you guys would let me know right?
I mean, still that'd be horrible to compete against (1/2 the going rate), but at least you'd see why I'm just

at the thought of a $125 paint job

dwbrooks · 12-04-2005, 05:30 PM

I'm starting to think that the idea of a guy doing work for so cheap is scaring some of you guys into not wanting to believe it.

Look at what I said $125-$25 paint- We can add in 20% overhead for the guys gas and the newspaper ad, Leaving $80 for him. If he does the room in even say 4 hrs thats $20 an hour. Most likely tax free, no insurance and so on.

If you work 40 hrs a week at $20=$800
X 52 weeks= $41,600 a year. Not rich but not horrible by any means

I will not argue that there is money to be made in painting by targeting the right market. All I'm saying is there are nearly no barriers of entry into the Painting Business, therefore your going to get lowballers some of which might do decent work for low rates.

A skilled Painter with 5 yrs experiance in my area working for a good company might make $12-15 an hour. Why doesnt it make sense to you that they same guy wouldnt put an ad in a paper and make $20 and be happy with it.

I dont want to be redundent but there are always people out there that will do comparable work for a lower price. Thats capitalism. Choose your target market and this is all meaningless. My intial point was is that there are people that can bid the jobs lower because there overhead is lower than the other guy or they dont need as much money to support there lifestyle.