Legit Business Or Not?

Richard

How many of you guys know painters who claim to be legit contractors, but have employees and no workers comp...dont carry insurance, etc..?

I have met a few lately that I had to do some research on to find out about...It amazes me, but I know people do it

HUDSONVALLEYEXT

I have a friend or two that are competitors of mine. They don't carry no insurance and the often have workers on jobs with no comp. I don't know why people around here don't ask to see some paper work. They tell people they are insured but they never ask to see proof. All the jobs I did last year only 1 person asked for proof of my insurance. What the hell is wrong with people....

Brushslingers

Happens all the time, I know of two personally last year that got hit for w/c and went under. There's your selling point btw... ALL (well almost) states have company info online for anyone to see... free. How many people do you bid on that DONT have online access? Another reason I have over a 60% close rate.

__________________
Benn

Mike Finley

Why should customers be expected to do due diligence in order to hire somebody? Do you ask for proof of the cop who pulls you over for speeding is a cop? Do you ask to see the last health inspection reports on the Burger King you are in before you order?

It's the sorry state of affairs of the contracting business that this is even a subject.

Ed the Roofer

Darn it, Little Eddie just erased a very lengthy post before it got submitted. (Maybe he is trying to tell me something)

Briefly, I hammer that point home with customers in writing and verbally when we meet to discuss the scope of work and cost of the project.

It is included extensively in my "10 Tips On How To Choose Any Contractor" flyer/ad I recently created and provide for every potential customer.

It has several variations on my new "Contractor Grading Comparison Questionairre" which I allow them to go over and assign various point levels for the level of performance for each question. (That is still a work in progress)

It is imperative to pound in the importance of proper documentation to the HO to differentiate yourself from the cheating contractors. Otherwise, it is an unlevel playing field. Even legally, their are ways to circumvent the systems, if multiple "employees" are listed as co-owners and electing to not utilize WC.

Ed

premierpainter

Got a company around here with 300 "Subs". Yet none of them have a business or Insurance. I asked a "sub" how he gets paid and he said half cash and half a check written to him. The company dictates where and when a job must start and be finished by. They low ball the hell out of EVERY contractor out there and are KILLING this business. They will get thiers!!! I hear they are being looked into for tax fraud....imagine that bill- they have been doing this for 10 years

boman47k

Not suare about painters, but I know of a couple of roofing crews that work that way. Like being around a road gang of cons, thieves and dopers. Of course all the help are "subs". But as far as I know some never receive a paycheck, all cash. This usually paid daily. Most of them are broke the next day. In fact, some of them are literally on work release. Different ones at different times. Beats me how they get away with it.

Glasshousebltr

Why in the hell world would ya think ya need comp as painter.....What is somebody accidentally going to paint their nails?

Bob

__________________
Bob

Brushslingers

Hey, I might tie a razor to a pole and cut my finger!!

__________________
Benn

THINKPAINTING

Now thats funny............

Last year a painter of mine fell off the roof trying mask (cover) the roof line around a dormer. He fell backwards and hit the side of a concrete wall(just missed his head). I heard him it
form 20 feet away, called ambulance and he got help.

The homeowner told me later, I was high bidder for the job, but the other 2 bidders had no proof of WC. The painter was a very good employee, and he was out for some time but will work again .

I was relived he got the care he needed.

camaroman2125

Where i live if you don't have any employees you don't have to carry workers comp. All ya need is insurance.

__________________
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES - NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.

Frankawitz

There are allot of contractors who work with no insurance, My son was working for a roofing company and he fell while carrying shingles and he broke his wrist so the kid goes to the clinic and he had to pay for his own treatment, I wanted to go look this guy up, The guy turns out to be his girlfriend's brother who owns the roofing company. I told him boy you got some good friends. Here you work for the guy and get hurt and then you have to pay.
But there are so many trades people who do side work in this area, so you get what you pay for and believe me some of these home owners are cheap.

Ed the Roofer

I know 2 roofing contractors out of the surrounding Detroit area. M. W. Morse roofing, which is a big operation and a small guy by the name of Mike Lovitt, which I think he calls himself Dependable Roofing, if I remember correctly.

At the time I visited Morses company, they were definitely not cheap and they were buying over 1 million dollars of Duro-Last membrane per year. That going back to about 1993.

Do you know any of these guys.

Hey Frankawitz! Are you out of the Frankenmouth area per chance? Thats a really nice town and I loved stayin at that Bavarian Inn. Darn good food!!!

Ed

Richard

yeah...it's the same here, I was talking about the guys who have thoseyear round workers that they call "employees" to some people and "once in a while helpers" to others, depending who they are talking to

MakDeco

I sub out some of my work and make sure the sub provides the correct insurance info. If not I still have the comp to cover them if they don't.

__________________
MAK Deco

boman47k

You have a policy that covers whoever you may hire on a temp basis? Do you have to inform the carrier everytime you need a temp employee?

MakDeco

If a sub does not prove that they have comp, and I 1099 them when my insurance co. audits my books and see's that that sub did not show proof of comp I have to pay for the comp on the amount I paid him on the 1099. It can be done here in IL that way. All tho I do not recommend it, because I try and make sure any sub has the comp first or I may not hire him. ( I don't like paying any extra for comp then I have too)

I carry one full time employee but in the summer months I can get backed up and will sub out (mostly exteriors) work to a few other guys I know. Its better then turning down the work and I usually get the referrals from that work cause the customer thinks its me doing the work.

__________________
MAK Deco

boman47k

Yeah, I understand the audit part. I just didn't know whether you had like an umprella policy of some sort to cover temps without and audit. does the carrier frown on doing it that way? I mean if a temp gets hurt in the middle of the year before the audit. Any problems with that? Or is understood between you and the carrier that you may have temps during the year?

Thanks

MakDeco

I suppose its understood that I am doing that way, but haven't ever had a comp claim in 14 rs. All tho the guys I use on temp basis as subs I know pretty well at this point and most have there own coverage. Doing the way i mentioned is last resort!

__________________
MAK Deco

Mud Master

I gotta guy here in MD. He worked for a very experienced finisher for about 14-15 months. Got to the point that he could say "I can finish drywall". Nothing special, no speed or real skill. Anyway he goes out and starts his own company, no license, no insurance, no workers comp. Hires like 8 guys. The guy he was working for I used to work for years back, pretty much ran his business after he got in a car accident. But anyway he was a nice guy and referred him to a bunch of builders he used to work for but broke ties with, under the impression that he would get all the proper licensing and insurance. Well like I said he brings on 8 guys, none of them drive so he picks them all up in the morning, drops them off at the job and literally stands there and watches them, or goes an gets coffee. Comes to work Dressed in his best cloths, and keeps hand sanatizer in his van in case he gets his hands dirty. So I ran into his top mechanic a few months back and we were talking about it, he said that Dennis( the owner) tells him not to say anything to the builders because he dosn't want them to know that his mechanics knows more than he does. He pays them all under the table with cash every week. So the guy slows down, fires like 4 of them right off the bat(which I have always had a big beef with because if you have loyal employees that show up and work everyday and don't leave for an extra $1 an hour than it's your responsability to keep them workin, at the shop, at your house, something!!). Than he says that Dennis picked him up one day and said "Look at me!! i'm dressed in work cloths, i'm gonna go clean out a house!!" and expected some sorta award for it . Anyway getting back to the point, he is still out there today, unlicensed,uninsured,and no comp. watching his guys hang and finish houses, tellin them to be quiet so the builders think he knows it all.

I guess anyone can go into business, regardless of knowledge?!

__________________