Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling

 
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Old 10-13-2008, 12:22 AM   #1
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Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Ok guys I need your help. Luckily I've never done this...yet, but from what I've read, you can paint oil base over latex but you can't paint latex over oil base less it will alligator up on you. Well my best carpenter called me tonight & said he primed & painted his bathroom with latex primer & paint & now i't peeling on him in big strips. I didn't know what to tell him so I thought I would ask you guys with your wealth of knowledge. What does he need to do? He says it's peeling on the drywall as well as the trim & door.

Thanks ahead of time guys.
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Old 10-13-2008, 12:41 AM   #2
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Hope it all peels off for him. Can you say (oil base) Kilz? It would have stuck to any clean surface. And maybe better prep next time.
But I'm just a pro handyman that has had to learn the hard way. Maybe one of the wise old painters will have other thoughts.

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Old 10-13-2008, 05:54 AM   #3
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


yea, sounds like he used cheap paint too.

Tell him that he should wash the walls and trim to remove the peeling paint. he should use warm water with TSP or equal and one of those 3M green scrub pads.

Let it dry and prime with Kilz (not a fan of Kilz) or Zinzer Cover Stain. after he primes he can patch where needed and put his latex finish coat on. He should stay away from the $6.00 a gallon material when painting a bathroom.
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:55 AM   #4
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


A good 100% acrylic primer will work over oil, though an oil primer is better. The problem is that a lot of people assume primer is primer and end up using the wrong product for the job. A regular latex primer will not work where a product like Zinsser 1-2-3 will.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:02 AM   #5
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Most HOs/handymen who don't know any better pick Kilz2 because they hate working with oil.

The best prep I've found to work for painting over an oil finish is a good sanding, wipe down with laquer thinner (esp if it's a high gloss oil), and a good coat of a high quality oil primer. Sand again, fill, and start your finish.

Unfortunately, the only way to fix it now is to scrape off every bit of that latex paint and start over.
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:33 AM   #6
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman61 View Post
Ok guys I need your help. Luckily I've never done this...yet, but from what I've read, you can paint oil base over latex but you can't paint latex over oil base less it will alligator up on you. Well my best carpenter called me tonight & said he primed & painted his bathroom with latex primer & paint & now i't peeling on him in big strips. I didn't know what to tell him so I thought I would ask you guys with your wealth of knowledge. What does he need to do? He says it's peeling on the drywall as well as the trim & door.

Thanks ahead of time guys.
Oil based paints create a surface that is not porous enough for a latex top coat to adhere to.
An oil based substrate first needs to be scarified (sanded) to create a "tooth" for proper adhesion of the latex top coat.
At this point he has got a removal nightmare with no easy solution.
All of the latex material must be removed.

After the latex has been completely removed, sand the oil based substrate and apply a latex bonding primer.
Any bonding primer is acceptable.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:06 AM   #7
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


and apply a latex bonding primer.

Is not the term "bonding" ment to imply that it will stick to the oil based paint?
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:08 AM   #8
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


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and apply a latex bonding primer.

Is not the term "bonding" ment to imply that it will stick to the oil based paint?

I am not understanding the question.

The actual name of the primer is "Bonding".

Is that the question?
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:30 AM   #9
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


I am not understanding the question.

The actual name of the primer is "Bonding". That is a paint brand?

I don't think I understand now.
Bonding means sticking together( close enough)If the primer says bonding primer,would'nt you think that ment that it would stick to oil based paint? It says on the can it will stick to glossy surfaces,glass,etc.Not arguing ,just wondering what is the meaning of a bonding primer vers regular.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:01 AM   #10
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris n View Post
I am not understanding the question.

The actual name of the primer is "Bonding". That is a paint brand?

I don't think I understand now.
Bonding means sticking together( close enough)If the primer says bonding primer,would'nt you think that ment that it would stick to oil based paint? It says on the can it will stick to glossy surfaces,glass,etc.Not arguing ,just wondering what is the meaning of a bonding primer vers regular.
A bonding primer is just what you imagine it to be. Bonding is a description not a brand name. In house painting there are basically three reasons to prime. One would be a standard primer that is used to fill a porous surface such as new drywall it will allow your finish coat to cover evenly. Second would be a sealer this is used to stop bleed through of stains such as water or ink. Third is a bonding primer used to enhance adhesion to smooth surfaces.

Jim
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:26 AM   #11
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris n View Post
I am not understanding the question.

The actual name of the primer is "Bonding". That is a paint brand?

I don't think I understand now.
Bonding means sticking together( close enough)If the primer says bonding primer,would'nt you think that ment that it would stick to oil based paint? It says on the can it will stick to glossy surfaces,glass,etc.Not arguing ,just wondering what is the meaning of a bonding primer vers regular.
Ah, yes there are a number of primers available for different types of jobs.

PVA for drywall.
Bonding for glossy hard to adhere to surfaces.
Block fill for cinder blocks.
etc.

Just about every brand on the market carries what they specify as a "Bonding" primer.
I have found Porter's Bonding primer works best for priming before painting over wallpaper (I really hate doing that though ).
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:28 AM   #12
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Quote:
Originally Posted by paintr56 View Post
A bonding primer is just what you imagine it to be. Bonding is a description not a brand name. In house painting there are basically three reasons to prime. One would be a standard primer that is used to fill a porous surface such as new drywall it will allow your finish coat to cover evenly. Second would be a sealer this is used to stop bleed through of stains such as water or ink. Third is a bonding primer used to enhance adhesion to smooth surfaces.

Jim
What brand of bonding primer do you prefer? Is there one better than another?
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:22 PM   #13
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


pittsburgh paints universal seal grip is the best all around primer bonding or other i have worked with just rember prep makes the finish
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:26 PM   #14
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


note:seal grip dose not take out oder from med to heavy smoke
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:47 PM   #15
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


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note:seal grip dose not take out oder from med to heavy smoke
Not much will.

Even in completely gutted homes once all the vendors are finished you can still smell a faint hint of smokey goodness.

I like some Pittsburgh products and I will have to give your preferred product a whirl.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:59 PM   #16
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


If you are going to use oil primers indoors, SW makes an odor-less oil. It doesn't give you a headache. It is expensive and takes longer to dry before you can recoat it.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:24 PM   #17
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


hey thanks dmax, for the tip on sw orderless oil (do you have a #code for it or can you give me the specific name for the product ??) when i do fire and water restoretaion jobs where people are liveing in their homes still and have pets and children it consernes me eaven though when i tell them the smell will be bad and they say o it will be ok . well lets just say any good green tips are welcome here
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:51 PM   #18
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Thanks for the info guys. He used SW products & went back to them & they gave him the same info everyone here did. In hind sight he told me he knew better, but he didn't realize it was oil based paint already in there. He's considering replacing the door, but he didn't say what he was going to do with the drywall & trim. I'll let him know about the TSP & Scotchbrite pads.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:42 PM   #19
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Quote:
Originally Posted by harness View Post
hey thanks dmax, for the tip on sw orderless oil (do you have a #code for it or can you give me the specific name for the product ??) when i do fire and water restoretaion jobs where people are liveing in their homes still and have pets and children it consernes me eaven though when i tell them the smell will be bad and they say o it will be ok . well lets just say any good green tips are welcome here

Oil is the only formulation that works on some contracts.
I make it clear to the homeowner up front and expect them to take the necessary actions to prevent being around during the project.
Hey, they hired me to do job and if oil is involved they gotta go.

Green is too expensive and most of the time inconvenient to use and usually not as effective.
Sad but true.
I use exhaust fans to create a negative pressure, but homeowners are more sensitive to odors than most of us.
Do what you can, but do what you need to get the job done right first and foremost.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:44 PM   #20
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Re: Latex Over Oil Base Paint Is Peeling


Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman61 View Post
Thanks for the info guys. He used SW products & went back to them & they gave him the same info everyone here did. In hind sight he told me he knew better, but he didn't realize it was oil based paint already in there. He's considering replacing the door, but he didn't say what he was going to do with the drywall & trim. I'll let him know about the TSP & Scotchbrite pads.

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