DavidNTX

Actually I went there for a job interview and was offered the job. It was to take care of the Gulf Coast region which included hundreds if not thousands of oil platforms that had to be painted and maintained.

I was ready to accept the job when something came up (family-wise) and I wasn't able to. This was maybe 4 or 5 years before he shut down. He wound up hiring a guy out of Midland, Texas to take care of that region. I don't remember an Albert. That doesn't mean anything. It seems like he used to have an estimator named Rocky or something like that.

I remember his operation was on several acres and it seems like it was out in the country. His print shop used to send out a newsletter to all of the employees once a month. It was an amazing thing to see. He was a very agressive contractor and employed a lot of people in his business.

Do you know if Bob is still alive?

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Mr. Mike

I am not sure if Bob is still alive, I will ask a rep this week or next. I know they did it big and I would love to pick their brains for even just 20 minutes. I do know Albert Whitehouse a brother of Bob's their dad or grandfather started the company about 85 or 125 years ago.

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Mr. Mike

Do you do industrial painting, and do you have a website?

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DavidNTX

No I don't. I know others who have made fortunes in that arena. As of now I don't do much painting anymore. In reality I estimated these last couple of jobs for a friend of mine that is a painting contractor. He is just getting started. Painting is what I did all of my life but now I would like to stay more on the side of this software rather than the high pressure of dealing with general contractors on jobsites.

The only website I have is http://xtmatix.com.

The business I was involved in for much of the last 35 years was a family owned business started by my dad in 1960 and finally closed down just last year. We did commercial painting. I have worked in some of the chemical plants and refineries and technically that is considered industrial painting but it is nothing like these guys do.

Even estimating industrial paints is different. This is how industrial painters estimate how much paint they use. I am going to have to fudge some of these numbers but you will still understand.

One number I will fudge is 1604. I think that is the number but I don't remember offhand right now. That is the number of square feet that 1 gallon of paint (100% solids) will cover 1 mil (dft) on a smooth surface.

Most times paints are only about 50% solids so 1 gallon of paint at 50% solids will cover 802 SF at 1 mil thick.

BY the time you consider about 50% solids and a mil thickness of about 2.5 then the coverage comes down close to 300 SF per gallon. Actually it is 320 SF per gallon. Those guys are well versed on putting paint on at a certain mil thickness.

This same formula is true for all paint coverages. 1604 X percent solids divided by the mils thick. Look on the back of a can of paint and get the percent solids and the recommended thickness. It will come out to about 300 SF per gallon. I am going from memory from many years ago but I believe this is the way coverage is figured. I used to even have this in my estimating software. It was a version for industrial painters. I guess if I ever see a need for this again it wouldn't be too hard adding that formula to the program again.

Industrial painters use a whole different technique and they approach estimating a job a lot different than painters in commercial and residential do. It is really interesting to understand how they do it.

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Mr. Mike

So now you started and own this software company for estimating?

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Steve Richards

Yup. industrial painters show-nuff nose day stuff!

DavidNTX

Yip, they do but try and get an industrial painter to cut in an accent wall in an office and see what happens.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule and the same would hold true with a painter that does a great job painting offices and homes. Putting him in a blast hood or up on a rack of pipes trying to apply the coating to specs could easily be a nightmare.

The thing about most industrial paint jobs is they do have inspectors. They are well trained inspectors. I think it might be NACE (National Association of Corrosion Engineers) or something like that. They watch the coating operation from preparation through the final coat, check your dft between coats and even keep up with environmental conditions while you do your work. They are well trained, experienced in industrial coatings and independant and will make sure it is done correctly. Maybe that's why those guys get paid so well. The owners understand the importance of every step of a coating operation.

Those guys have to know their stuff.

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THINKPAINTING

$35.00 an hr.................for one man? Let me ask ya this, how many days do you work a year, do you have an IRA, Health Insurance etc...

Know one knows more than me how tough things are right now but we were getting 35.00 an hr in the early 80's its now 2009........

So many painters estimate jobs way to low, the biggest item they miss is down time or loss time, setup etc....

There is no doubt we are all trying to make a living but working for peanuts is still for monkeys..............

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DavidNTX

Different areas are getting different amounts. The cost of living etc. One guy was saying he gets a dollar per sf for 1 coat of paint on gyp walls in NYC. That sounds great but parking is 50 bux a day or more. Costs in California are much higher than Texas and have been for a long time.

We sure can't get much more than $35 per manhour in Houston. Some people maybe can but in a competitive bid commercial market you can't. That doesn't include any medical insurance, 401K or anything else. That is labor, overhead and profit. Overhead would include all payroll taxes and business insurance.

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DavidNTX

Sorry Mr. Mike, I missed this.

Yes I did. This is the second time around for this. I wrote some estimating software back in the 80s that was sold to a major material supplier to use as a sales tool. That was before windows.

This package uses the features of windows. I am now writing the module for on screen takeoffs. I knew alot of drawings have moved to digital only but had no idea as to the extent. I wrote a preliminary tool for measuring plans that are online or on cd but wrote it for .jpg and .bmp files. Plans are normally provided in .tiff or .pdf files. I finally located the tools I need to be able to display those file types so now I am off to the races writing this module.

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Mr. Mike

Very nice stuff there David.

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Paul Painter

Wow,in St.Thomas,ontario..the new home guys charge $1.35 a square foot..I notice that they charge for one primer/two finish..the end result is one coat of tinted primer/one finish only of low lustre eggshell..they pay their guys $15 per hour..years later when I do repaints on these homes I really have to pole sand/hand sand walls..so much crap on the walls(dust/chunks)..poor drywall jobs(two coats of mud on corners),nail pops everywhere..the owner is lucky if it works out to $25 per hour at the end of the year for running a crew..I stopped doing new homes around 1990..I was working for someone who paid well but he was bumped by this lower priced thing..he was charging $1.65 per square and was going to raise his price,,the 3 builders went to cheaper guys and they still have to fight to be paid..sometimes they are 4 houses ahead and still havent been paid..the builders here dont give a ****..they are building approx. 235 to 300 a year here..

DavidNTX

Thanks Mr. Mike. This new onscreen takeoff tool is awesome. I have it working just trying to integrate it with the program. I can't see any way of actually putting it in the program itself and being efficient so I am trying something else.

Hopefully in a few days I will be testing it.

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paintr56

I don't bid by the hour, but I figure my bids aiming for $75/hour and look to learn what went wrong if it dips below $65 on any one job.

Jim