Illegal Immigrates

zcrazypainter

I do not know about other states, but here in Middle Tn.
I am continously losing job bids to mexicans! Does anyone else have this problem

Woz the Painter

Ya dude the problem is nationwide, try bidding work at union wages and benes, when you got contractors hiring day labor for $8.00 an hour.

slickshift

This is a legitimate problem almost all of us have to deal with
I'd like to see a helpful discussion on how to deal with the situation
Please keep this thread non-political and non-bashing, or it's gone


It's tough
We have a large population of Brazilians here, most of whom are illegal
They will paint your room for $100, I just saw an ad for $36 a room for ceilings
That is mind-bogglingly cheap for out here (cost of living is very high)
I did not have to deal with this before I relocated here, but I had the "Drunk Guy With A Brush Part-Time Painting Co." and "Crackhead Sometimes Painters"
It's best not to compete with them
There will always be someone hungrier or more desperate
Always

Yes, it's tough to watch jobs fly by because you couldn't or wouldn't lower your price
But is a customer buying services on price alone really a good customer to have?
They certainly won't purchase your services again if someone new comes along that's cheaper

Someone shopping for services on price alone should not be your target customer
It is the worst type of customer to have

It's a much better idea to seek out a better customer

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

simmons

THIS IS BETTER THAN TWO CUPS OF COFFEE!!!!
Here in SO CAL we've experienced the full effect of twenty plus years of immigration pressure on the industry.When I was a spry 18yr old ,my first job with a legitimate painting co.,starting wages- 14.36/hr,paid vacation(two weeks after the first year),med, dental,vis.and profit sharing -oh yeah retirement too! Here we are twenty five years later-a non-union journeyman is lucky to make 20/hr -benefits? yeah right..
I'm living in a pretty upscale golf and waterfront community so luckily I've been able to establish a good clientelle for repaints. But the business goes to sleep from Thanksgiving to March. It would be great to do a few new construction jobs, but good luck competing with these guys. A gc stopped by one of my jobs and wanted to know if i was intersted in bidding a couple of his homes--his friendly painter from down south isn't getting everything perfect. But what the hell -pedro,s only gettin 1.68/ft!!! The going rate for track homes out here 20yrs ago was 2.00/ft. Now we've got gc's who demand two tones with ten foot ceilings for less than they've ever been painted for,with the highest home prices in history. And that goes for almost all the trades. These guys will sometimes have six guys on a paint job ,sun up to sun down on Sundays and Holidays. I'm so fed up trying to compete with these guys, if someone can build the wall--I'll paint it.....

FCPWLLC

This is a letter floating around supposedly sent to Senator Frist.

"Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

#1.
Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen.

Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing, and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

#2.
There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.

#3.
Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than $20 billion sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and, therefore, assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

#4.
Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

#5.
This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

#6.
The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

#7
There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

#8.
Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I, Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S.; During World War II, Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico; During the Cold War, Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today, Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, checkout some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

#9.
Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to break the law and trash another nation?

#10.
There is a labor shortage in this country? This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

#11.
It is racist to want secure borders? What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price?

For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way.

There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves."

David J. Stoddard
U.S. Border Patrol (RET)
Hereford, Arizona

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PipeGuy

Yeah, good luck with that.
As long as politics controls the outcome, any discussion that lacks a political context is little more than exercising the vocal chords.

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slickshift

Yeah not that I don't think it won't degenerate....as it already is on it's way...

But:
It's possible to discuss this as a business problem in a normal non-inflammatory way

See The Post:
It is what it is
Evolve or die

If you feel politics is the answer, use your vote
...as much as it seems they don't, technically they do work for us
If you feel the American Consumer is the problem, educate them
If you feel it's the American Businessperson that's the problem, tell them how to be profitable w/o hiring illegals

If you want to post up how to vote someone out of office, that's fine
If you want to post up how to educate a consumer, that's fine
If you want to post up how to be profitable by paying legals fair wages, that's fine

But I see no reason for meaningless political or racist rants that do nothing to convince anyone "on the other side" of anything except that "the other side is a bunch of idiots" and inflame those on "this side"

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

ProWallGuy

IBTL

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slickshift

basically, yeah
...lol

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

Woz the Painter

Without talking politics, this tread is going nowhere, very fast...

rws

This is much more than a business problem.Its a very emotionial issue for lots of us.People need to vent.Very hard to remember the goal is to drain the swamp when your up to your ass in alligators.

copusbuilder

Slickshift wrote:
This is a legitimate problem almost all of us have to deal with
I'd like to see a helpful discussion on how to deal with the situation
Please keep this thread non-political and non-bashing, or it's gone

Hmm, Should we all smile, hold hands and sing a few religous hymns

It is a disgustingly huge problem here in Texas.
Latinos have taken over as the largest student population in Texas public schools.
Latinos want to work for other latino contractors and not white contractors (unless we speak their language).
Keep in mind these are illegal immigrants.
I could go on but am a slow typer.
I am not pleased and do write to our candy assed politicians and remind them constantly.

The solution is simple. Enforce the existing laws?

That being said,, I would like to aploligize if I have insulted any ethnic, religous, gay or lesbian, politcal, vertically challenged, or loving liberal

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ukpaul

For me, it looks like i am going to up sticks and leave the US due to all the red tape in trying to stay here....
I have been running my business here for the last 14 months and things are going real well....People here just can't find any decent tradesmen (till i came along)....Problem for me is that for me to stay I need to really build the co. up so that I oversee a manager/ supervisor and employees.....This ain't ever gonna happen here....I can't even find 1 decent painter let alone maybe 5 or 10 or more !
I am willing to give it a real go here but it doesn't look like I am going to be alowed to.......
Paul.

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Teetorbilt

I like rws' assement even if he's never seen a 'gator, swamp or anything else. From an old swamper.

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copusbuilder

My German tile setter had those sentiments exactly. Would loose a job for .25 cents a foot to a non tax paying illegal alien. His work was impeccable and I have not been able to fill the void since he left
Finding customers that appreciate good work is hard. Most don't know quality from a hole in the wall.

With most people it's greed and stupidity...
You can't educate the masses

But surely the red tape in England has to be as bad if not worse??

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rws

Seen lots of gators and swamps have family in naples .

ukpaul

Yea, its really frustrating !!
All the people here in Morristown just think you can come over on a plane and stay......All they see is all the illegals and think its easy...In fact, I have a Mexican guy who works for me and tells me that when my visa runs out I should just stay....I tell him that us brits probably stand out like a sore thumb compared to the hispanics !
I guess in UK it probably is just as bad but all we see is that we are gradually becomeing a minourity due to all the Indians, Pakistanis, Kosovan, Iraqis etc all being let in.
It's a changing world !
Paul.

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Teetorbilt

rws, I went by your address (NY) sorry if I'm out of step. I have a buddy with a camp in Big Cypress and have tooled all over the 'glades in airboats and buggies. We aren't talking tourist stuff, I build airboats and buggies, have for 30+ years. It once took me almost 3 days to walk out after flipping an airboat. Really funny stuff except for the 'gators, They really slowed things down, you don't swim a ACE ditch without checking it out thoughly.

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Jonesey

This is no joke guys, this thread is exactly why I ended up in business. I used to work for the University here. Vacation, sick days, insurance. One nice budget crunch and whoops, you were the last hired. Trying to compete in this market is killing me. Guys don't even have to learn the language here. I've been a foreman for FOUR YEARS for $14 an hour.

Gas prices were eating me up. Heck, it's not even prevailing for TEN YEARS AGO. Getting chewed because not one guy on the crew could understand english. I had to SHOW everybody what to do and STILL get MY work done.

I decided to go into business for myself before I ended up too broke. These are real problems for a lot of fine tradesmen in this area. The painting contractors here don't care or can't care. They either get priced out, or start hiring on in that same range.

Heck, last year I lost $400 in stolen tools alone! I still have to check bags every day. If it gets in their car it's gone.

The only way to fight back, imho, is to live to your principles and don't stop.

1. No illegals
2. No drugs
3. No liquor
4. No thieves
5. Got a visa? Learn the language
6. I'll spell it for you, B A T H E, every day, no kidding
7. Smile

If a guy can't do that, he's not even a helper. If an HO wants a bidwar, fine. He can hire anybody he wants as long as I don't have to fix it.

Right now, I still work for somebody else. Have to because the market here is so intense. But I set my prices. If they don't pay, I don't work for them. Bills must be paid. But at least now I've got more bargaining power than I had, and a few good customers under my belt that are happy to refer me.

I heard a story on NPR that said the labor surplus wasn't really harming wages. The guy said that wages had only gone down %5 in the last 10 years. And that didn't matter because there was so much more work now because of the lower prices than there was 10 years ago. I'd love to give that guy a real education.

The fact is that they'll keep coming until they can no longer find jobs. No one, no matter what they say, is going to enforce the law that's already on the books. Here in OK we've just had a shakeup in the Comp Law. They promised full enforcement and started auditing. For a year. I had to buy MY OWN COMP to keep my job. My old boss' illegal help? They get paid cash.

Woz the Painter

Some people only want rich or poor, no middle class, and they are winning, so set your sights on a job at McDonalds, flipping burgers.....