How Much Should I Charge....

Mellison

1.Why should a customer benefit in a monetary fashion because we love what we do? The fact we love what we do will be visible during and when the job is complete in the way of showing up when expected and on time as well as providing the customer a high quality job.If someone is going to benefit it should be a friend or family member. I have been in this business long enough to know that most and I mean most customers carry the "what have you done for me lately" attitude. Save them money on one job and they will forget about that while talking about the next one.
2.This topic really has no end or conclusion. Why? Because every contractor's business will deal with different situations and nuances in the way of location, number of employees, Cost of insurance, Cost of workers comp,Weather or not employees are even payed on the books or not just to name a few.
How can I compare my business plan, living in NYC with as many a nine employees ($18,000.00 Workers comp alone) to a contractor in a rural area who may pay his one or two guys cash? Or comparing my business plan in NYC with as many nine employees with comercial builder or development builder in a rural area with 100 plus employees all receiving health care and 401 k contributions. It can not be done unless all the variables are visible and understood.
Every one here is self employed for several reasons. I assume one reason is to make the amount of money you feel you are worth as well as making a nice living for yourself and family. How much you charge is realy a case of what you want to or are willing make and whether someone is willing to pay that amount.
Just my 2 cents.
Mike

WisePainter

I have been in business long enough to grow a thick enough skin and treat the most unholy terror of customers as if they were my best.

Business is a game of wits and negotiation, and not for the weak or those that take things too personally.

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

WisePainter

Good point.

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Mellison

"other times I do a job where I end up in the negatives"

Wise, Just curious, how many employees do you have. How can as you " "end up in the negatives" as you say and run business with employees and the overhead that accompanies them.

WisePainter

I have already posted somewhere that I am a solo painter and do not hire except for the occasional helpers which are the same guys every time.

How do I lose money then?

Well there is the occasional oversight in bidding that I am sure is not unique to my business alone.
I also consider giving deals to repeat and referral customers that I consider a loss.
Am I not wise for running the business this way?
Dunno...it all depends on how top heavy your business is and if you can handle it.
I am comfy.


Very comfy.

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Mellison

See, This is exactly what I meant in my earlier post. Comparing your business plan to mine and mine to another is akin to comparing apples and oranges.
Glad you are comfy. It is a great place to be.
Mike

WisePainter

It does seem to get quite clustery around here when the convo turns to pricing jobs, what with the wide range of different companies involved.

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

vandyandsons

some guys can live like a king @$30/hr, some guys will die on the vine for $30/ billable hr. the local market is everything. sooooo many variables.

WisePainter

After working for a few different sized companies (2 painters up to 100 painters), I found that some of the happiest and least stressed owners were able to keep their company small yet extremely profitable.

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Wolfgang

Go to PaintTalk and post a pricing question....then stand back and watch all hell break loose. Wise, you're in KC and I'm up the road in Omaha. Our insurance rates are cheaper than the coasts and state costs are lower two. If I tried to charge what they do, jobs would be far and few between. (Which at my age doesnt seem like a bad idea now that I think about it) On a personal note, I didn't need any paragraphs in this did I?

capital city

This is exactly what I was trying to say with my earlier post and for some reason Malcomb cant get that through his head. Malcomb why do you think that I havent figured in my overhead. Here is my overhead.
1) Ad in the local yellow pages= $250 month and is the biggest add in the painting section. In comparison it would be $900 month for the same ad in one of my bigger markets just 30 min away.
2)My insurance is $560 a year (no workmans comp as it is just myself and wife)
4)$400 year for local BBB membership
5)$420 month for new Ford econoline van which is my family's second vehicle also and is a great write off.
Other then that just supplies. Im not asking for everyone to post their overhead, just trying to explain how someone can make a living @ $30 hr. Figure those cost and myself and wife making $30 hr each and we make out pretty good.

capital city

Forgot to list cell phone bill @ $110 month.
Most of my overhead items are things that I would need in some shape or form regardless if I were self employed (cell, van, etc.) that I get basically discounts on due to my business.

Schmidt & Co

Chicago overhead.......
Cell phone plan- $320 per month (5 phones, 2 with internet plans)
Workers comp & liability- $15,000 per year.
PDCA membership- $700 per year
Advertising- $3,000 per year
Total vehicle costs- $12,500 per year (#2 trucks, fuel, insurance & maintance)
Uniforms- $500 per year (company t shirts etc)
Just to name a few......

Thats with a yearly average of 5 employees & me in the field also. It always amazes me to see the arguments over pricing, "I can't get that price!". Its buisness & nothing more. I happen to love my trade, but I'd go out of buisness in just a few months if I charged some of the hourly rates I've been reading latley!

WisePainter

So what do you charge per man hour?

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Schmidt & Co

Forgive me, but I'm hesitant to post the exact amount on this public forum.... but its over $50.00 per man hour.

WisePainter

Write a book on how to get that and stay busy, and I will buy it!!

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Schmidt & Co

Different market I guess. I pay my top guy $26.00 per hour and I'm happy to get that! Every painter that calls looking for work wants no less than $20.00 per hour. Union scale is about $36-$37.00 now.

Schmidt & Co

Keep in mind, we have been in business 25 years. So we have history with our customer base. Nine months out of the year we are booked 4-8 weeks out.

THINKPAINTING

Look at it this way, just be glad you have work, there isnt any in my market, no matter who you are or what you charge and there wont be any anytime soon either.

We have been in business well over 25 yrs and have many accounts but all have cut back or stopped spending money on painting, unless its an absolute nessity and thats not often for paint work.

With that said, if you can make money charging 25-35-dollars an hour God Bless Ya.......

My rate 20 yrs ago was in that range.....

Let's hope 2009 is better , godd luck to all your gonna need it.

vandyandsons

good luck to you too.

i wish that our cousomers would understand that our coating are protective as well as decorative. i drive that point home with my clientel.

it's cheaper to repaint it than replace it.