How Long To Measure And Come Up With A Painting Price?

Mr. Mike

My question starts from all these painters taking a week or longer to send a bid to their prospects.

It may take me 1 day to 3 days to paint most of these jobs I bid and the prospects say things like we are waiting on billy to send his bid still. When I ask them when he came out they may say 1 week ago or 2 weeks ago. I always go ahead and tell them they don't need his bid, let's sign you up, I will paint this whole job in 2 days if it took me longer than that to give you a price it would be a little non professional possibly or just plain mean, let's sign you up today they obviously don't want you as a customer like I do.

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Steve Richards

Well...I don't take a week. More like a few days.

Would "Thanks for coming over, let us know when you can start" count as a closing?

I've been a referral-only business since 1980. I never really kept track of any "closing rate"...but the estimates I went on and didn't get the job, I can probably count on my fingers and toes.

Out of the regular clients I have, about 50% don't ask for a contract, or even how much I'm gonna charge. I give them a verbal ballpark anyhow though..just to reduce my own stress.

I don't have a web site, I'm not in the phone book, I don't have anything written on my truck.

I've also never been sued, not been paid, or asked to leave anyone's house...'cept for maybe my in-laws.

Who knows, A slick salesman like you might even be able to steal some of my clients. But you won't get a chance if they don't call anyone but me.


And of course this is the internet..so I can claim whatever I want. Don't believe any of it if ya want... don't matter to me.

Mr. Mike

That makes perfect since,

If you don't advertise then all your work is word of mouth, on word of mouth jobs you should land 98% with a small company or your doing something wrong.

Also it depends on the size of the company though in many cases, how many in your company are painting? If it is just you and one guy then yes, you should land 98% of your estimates because your over head will be very low and you can make good money. I think you can agree that you would have to charge a lot more and maybe way more than you would feel comfortable with to your customers if you had big ads and trucks and 8, 15, or 30 painters.

Edit to add below:
I would not steal a job from any painter, I assure you I do charge more than most because I promise more than most and I am usually the only person estimating my jobs as well. Oh, and no that was not a close, that is so bad, I need to puke, really how much harder is it really to go ahead and work them up a bid and ask them if they want to buy now.

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Steve Richards

HA..didn't mean to make ya sick, Mr. Mike!

Actually...I don't really feel like I'm "selling" anything. More like they're asking me to paint something...and I'm say "ok".

At 50 years old, I'm satisfied with my lot in life. I'm certainly not rich, but I don't have to wait until "payday" to get groceries either.

I like not having to work 40 hour weeks too.

I work all by myself. I had at least one helper up until about 8 years ago. While there are certainly times I miss having someone else around, I'll never go back. I go to work when I want, and I come home early when there's a ballgame I wanna see (or when I get tired/fish are biting).

BTW
I kinda had this same talk w/GeorgeZ awhile back.

Anywho..

I will say, I believe you are on the right track to "financial success" in this industry. And I certainly wish it for you.

NAV

For residential quotes you should be able to submit it within 1 to 3 days. Any longer is not necessary unless you think that the homeowner is just shopping.

The only reason i will hold a quote is if I think I can get last look at a big job (small jobs don't have much room to move). I explain to my customer that I put a lot of time and effort in to the quote and would like the opportunity to lower my price if it is close to a comparable quote. I get last look maybe 30% of the time. It also helps to compare apples to apples and explain why my price is so much higher.

Commercial work I hold sometimes if I think that someone else is getting last look. I have bid jobs and not been awarded the project to find out later that they used my specifications and went with another company. I am sure it has happened to everyone.

Timing is huge in my opinion

paintr56

Mike I like your response do you mind if I use it? 95+% of my bids are left with the client before I leave. If I am going to close it usually happens then maybe 25% of my closings happen later. I close about 1 in 3. How does your closing rate compare if you don't mind saying. It is nice to see how others do it.

Jim

paintr56

Steve, my work schedule is a lot like yours. I think that is the biggest perk of my business. It is nice to hear some one else value that ability. I keep trying to get my hours down to a thousand a year but 1100 is about the best I can do and maintain my life style.

Jim

Mr. Mike

Im a killer a selling paint jobs, I always close while on my first appointment with resi repaints. Used to drop a bid off and tell them to call me, I landed a little less than 1/3rd now I do the one call close and I close over 80%

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Steve Richards

Hey, 56

Nice to see another old fart still pluggin' along.

Funny, sometimes at the paint store, I'll run into this guy I used to work with back in the 70's..and I'm always amazed at how GD old he got


Sorry, Mr. Mike...I'll give you yer thread back now.

Mr. Mike

You take the floor anytime and I will sit and listen. These are all your threads.

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WisePainter

lol.

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Dave Mac

Mike I usually give the bid on the spot, and go over it with them, 95% of the time, usually less then a hour for the whole process.

dave mac

ps
Overhead for a single man shop is usally a lot higher then a big shop, percentage wise. Causing the one man shop to actually have to charge more then the big company. The big company can spread out the overhead a lot more then the one man shop.

Mr. Mike

I know lots of one man shops in my area, 1 truck, rented house, cell phone. Not much over head there.

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WisePainter

Sounds dreamy!

Especially when so many "top heavy" companies are going under all over America. Imagine the freedom of renting a house (no lopsided mortgage), 1 van (insurance and gas expense is minimal), and 1 cell phone (I will call you back when I can).

I would imagine that type of painter is relaxed when he proposes a bid, and doesn't need the hard sell to win every bid he throws out.

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Dave Mac

Mike what I mean is lets say a company with five guys. The owner wants to make 70,000 a year, his rate will be less then a one man shop who wants to make 70,000 a year, and if you figure the percentage of overhead spread with five guys its going to be less then with one guy. No big deal either way.

Dorman Painting

If it's a repaint, nine out of ten times I give them a ballpark figure on the spot. From there I decide whether they're serious enough about wanting me to do it, then I'll write a contract. Many times after I shoot them a ballpark figure, they react positively and I close the deal. If I get the typical "we're getting two other quotes" I normally don't even write a contract. I'll let them call me back if they need my service, I don't like to be priced out though.

I know I'm not as pushy as you Mike, but it seems to work for you which is great. That's just not really my personality, but most of my work is word of mouth, so the sale is much easier. I've noticed lately that I'm bidding work much cheaper than years past, I almost feel like I'm bidding some jobs at 1999 levels. This economy has made bidding work and actually closing the sale more dicey IMO.

Dorman Painting

Dave, I just don't think you're correct here. A larger company would naturally have more costs than a one man show. They would have more vehicle costs, insurance costs, fuel costs and more advertising costs. Not to mention their labor burden, it would be ridiculously higher than a one man show.

The only way a large company can spread their cost out is by committing to a much bigger work load. The one man show can pull in 70 grand off of much smaller annual sales than the guy with five workers.

Mr. Mike

Dorman,
Word of mouth is way different than an advertised lead. I don't think all people really want to get more estimates it is just a sounds good reason to get you the contractor to leave, I try and over come that anytime I can and I have landed great jobs from overcoming that objection. I know you say it is not your personality to be pushy and I don't think I'm pushy just determined and always moving forward. I would be more than happy to take you along on a field trip to an estimate one day or even go with you on one of yours to point out some easy pointers to close deals and hear some pointers from you on what went down. I would do that to have one more good competitor.

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Dave Mac

Doorman

The smaller guy can pull in 70 grand off a much smaller overall gross annual sales, but he has to have a much higher sale price (man hr rate), then the big guy.

I will try to explain better, its stuff I learned from Harry and Sigco.
smaller contractors think that the bigger contractors have more overhead then them. The overall number for the bigger contractor is larger, however it is a much smaller percentage, due to the fact the bigger guy is able to spread it over a larger number of people.

Sigo puts it another way as well.
A larger contractor makes a larger net profit on sales at $55/hr then the samller contractor can at $65/hr

dave

Dave Mac

Mike

whats your closing percentage from advertising leads?