How To Compete With That??

Beau

Pat. I'm new to this business also. Being a great painter is only half of it. The one thing all these guys are talking about is not painting - It's selling. Why do you REALLY care what the other guy charges. He's not you! If you try to sell on price life can be very hard. You have to go in selling "added value" and "benifits". After all, do you think the other guy is better than you? Maybe you could hier a salesmen to do the foot work for you for a while. Bottom line is - you're look at all the reasons you belive you won't get the job. There are more houses out there that need to be painted (the owners just don't know it yet) than there are painters! I have to belive I'll get every job just because I like to eat!

Pat72

Ok, I am going to clarify a few points that I might have not made very clear from the start.
For those who tell me that I am not competing with this company, I don’t see how that is. As far as I know, if two or more businesses target the same neighborhood /customers they ARE competing no matter what. They might not be competing on the same level such as price, quality etc. but they are still trying to get their contract signed before their competition which means that they ARE competing. Now having said that, why did I start this thread mentioning this company in particular? Simply because it is the first time (so far) that I see a low-baller offering such a complete list of specifications along with a list of a thousand references backed up with a warranty. Usually the low-ballers don’t mention warranties, have way few references, don’t talk too much about prep work and so on. So to answer your question, Beau, “Why do you REALLY care what the other guy charges” , I do care for two reasons: the first one is that I believe I must know who I am dealing with because if I don’t compare my business with them the potential customers will and throw questions such as: why is this other guy charging less than you? I rather have a good answer ready instead of just saying: “Well, they are probably just lying to hook the customers, the warranty is probably very short, the prep work is probably non-existent. And don’t worry about the 1000 references they are also probably fake”. That wouldn’t make me look very professional would it? I rather go with an answer along the lines of what AAPaint mentioned in his second post (nailed it on the head I think). The second reason why I cared about this business in particular is that I was curious to find out if they are doing something different that is more efficient thus reducing their operating costs somehow. Instead of just blocking them out I thought, maybe, I could learn something from a business who seems to be doing well. When it comes to business (and yes, Beau, I know it’s all about selling) I believe it doesn’t hurt to be a little curious especially when it comes to your competition. The more you know about them and how they operate and the better chance you have to find out what they don’t have and possibly make it your strength. I was just having a harder time with them finding that weak spot and thought some of you could have helped and you did. Thanks again

Brushslingers

Pat - I understand your reasons for need to know. Good luck in business, just find your strong point. I just won another bid today, I was higher by 236 dollars than everyone else. This may help you out a little more than my diatribe, visit the PDCA and take a look at the information they have.

[edited] Sorry, important phone call, I have to leave town like, 20 minutes ago to look at a job but I wanted to clarify. Details, things that get me the bid over others that are cheaper are details. "I put in the scope of work to replace these ugly switchplates since we have to take them off anyhow." or "these wall/ceiling/floor vents need to be painted to make this really look good, I tossed that in for you". Things that other people overlook, details, is what sells the job. That's what I meant by, you aren't competing with anyone but yourself. You will lose a few jobs to cheapo price, but you will get more noticing the things others don't. PDCA.org, somewhere on the site, or used to be, is a doc titled "10 tips for hiring a contractor"... I hand those out to homeowners with my bid, works like a charm.

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Benn

Double-A

Pat, take some time and give them a call. Find out exactly what is being offered. That way, you know if you're competing with a fixed price for all work, or just some aspect of it, (as I suspect you are). Also ask if they have any jobs going today, so you can drive by and take a look at their crew at work.

Once you know that, you can just pass that information along to your clients and potential clients.

And as for my list recommendation, I stand by it. When you know the reasons you'd hire them instead of you, you can address them. If you know they are not doing prep work, that permits are extra (if required), draping and drops are extra, etc., then you can provide that as "a list of questions a homeowner should ask any painting contractor" to your clients.

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

HUDSONVALLEYEXT

IM a painting contractor up in the Northeast I have family down there in palm beach county the only reason I have not moved there is because everyone uses slave labor down there and I would not make shi** down there. Thats how they are so cheap they are paying there guys 5 dollars an hour

Paul Burns

Is everybody here legal with W/C, taxes, etc.?

I mean I don't care if you are or not, but taxes are certainly the law, W/C is too, and licensing isn't THAT hard.

The reason I bring this up is because those ridiculously LOW pricing contractors CANNOT mathematically stay in business if they are legal. So if they are NOT, just turn them in, IF you are. If you are not, then you HAVE to play in their playground, and that is NOT where you want to play.

Paul

Brushslingers

I is... 1.6 million insured, full W/C and up to date license as well as BBB membership. We have 8 different law enforcement groups here NOT INCLUDING construction watchdogs, like the Code enforcement or the Dept of Agri... it don't pay to NOT be covered... almost ran a friend of mine out of business for having his brother on the job site and not covered, even though he was visiting.. that visit cost him 1500.00. heh

edit - Price of living in a capital city, that is fairly small.

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Benn

Paul Burns

I was wrong about W/C being law. I remember now that in some states at least, the owner(s) can be exempt and in VA, I think you can have up to 2 employees without W/C being required. It is still stupid in my mind to NOT have it. AND the mathematical equation when taxes are being paid just is not possible to stay in business for very long @ 100.00 per day, or whatever those low ballers charge.

So I would still turn them in. I mean if everyone cleaned their own street corners, the tide would rise and raise ALL paint ships with it!

Paul

Brushslingers

It is in Florida, period.. but you are right about some states, In Delaware it was sole props are exempt... you can PAY to get exempt in Florida but you have to own or be a member of a company. I agree though, it's stupid not to carry it... known too many that (from last year) had a dude fall 47' from a 14' ladder and landed on soild concrete (that wasn't poured at the time, was still sand) and filed a claim.

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Benn

Blaster

I would bet the special does not include all the prep and everything listed on the lower half of the page on the web site. I was in sales. The $1180 gets them in the door, and then they tell the homeowner in fancy talk "that special is for the cheap houses, a beautiful house like yours needs to be done the proper way. That $1180 is for the poor folk." Let us give you an estimate on doing it the right way, and then they sell them the BIG PACKAGE. It is common out here in all types of sales.

I just got a job a week ago that I bid, and I was $2500.00 over the other guy. Homeowner called me and said, why is your price so much higher? My reply was “I would be more concerned why his is so low, I do not see how he can bid it for that, but hey, if you feel comfortable that they will do quality work, save yourself some money. Just be careful and stay right on top of the guy.” We talked a little more and he gave me the job. It is hard to go in as the high bid, but I have found it does not pay to under sell, and doing the bait and switch like those guys is not my thing.

Blaster

Terrence

Oh Man...

If I had seen this post, I wouldn't have started my post "Stinky Cheese"
Oh well, sorry for the redundant topic...

We have so many low-ballers (no-ballers) around NNJ/NYC area, it's sick. I just figure they are hungry Russians or Chinese who just jumped off a container ship at Port Elizabeth with enough money in their pocket for a Purdy brush.

Guardi Pro

Pat... I'm in the same postion you are. You received some excellent advise, as i did a couple of days ago. These guys are really great and know what their talking about. Sort the info and use what you feel will work for you. Good luck!