Help..high End Darlings And I Haven't The Foggiest

lornmastro

i have gotten my first high end job...they are using a oil based paint to paint a new bookself... the brand is called fine paints of europe $80/galllon....i was told to paint the high gloss paint first...then light sand...the apply the satin...is there anything else i need to know about this paint???

ProWallGuy

Send a PM to slickshift, he just used the same stuff on a job.

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rws

The dutch oils look great but apply much different than american paints.Very tough to work with,best to check the fine paints website and do every thing they say to do.Use the brushes they say to use and the thinner.Best to practice on some scrap wood first.If you can not get a Venice brush a purdy oxhair woud be next best.You may need more than 2 coats.

slickshift

Run Forrest Run!

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

slickshift

Lol...

Seriously though, that stuff is like working with hot fudge....that's been in the fridge for a few weeks....

Send me a PM if you'd like a run-down on it

Oh, btw, that stuff comes in "Euro-Gallons" as they call it, nowhere near an American gallon

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

lornmastro

lol...that forest was a running fool....and his momma always use to say stupid is is stupid does....and slick i guess that makes me real stupid..cause i already said i'd do this job...thank goodness its only a few shelfes and some end caps....so slick as much as i got the biggest chuckle out of the picture of forrest..forest gump....what I REALLY NEED RIGHT NOW IS SOME HELP...WIMPER...WIMPER WITH PUPPY EYES....I CAN SEE THIS IS ONE OF THOSE JOBS THATS GONNA COST ME MORE THAN I MAKE...UM ,I WONDER IF FOREST'S MOMMA WOULD HAVE A GOOD SAYING FOR THAT. FINE PAINTS WEBSITE???

lornmastro

Thanks Slick I Will Do That.

slickshift

Sure no problem

I'm kidding...but not much
There's some stuff you really should know

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

Exroadog

Fine Paints of Europe........LOL.......Made in USA.

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rws

The schreuder paints were imported.The dutcholac is not imported?

slickshift

Manufactured by Wijzonol Bouwverven International B.V.
Zwolle, Netherlands

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

Humble Abode

hey slick,

If it isn't too much trouble I would like to benefit from your experience with this stuff. Also if you post it here maybe someone else won't have to ask again.

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slickshift

I was thinking of that Humble
Actually it ended up being 5 pages tailored pretty specific to lornmastro's experience
But I was thinking I could rework-it to be more general and post it up
If I get time in the next few days I'll take a stab at it

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

lornmastro

just wanted to say that slick was a god sent....that paint is a pain in the butt to work with ...slick let me know if you want me to type in your directions...its the least i could do...

slickshift

Thanks
Well I hope it helped
It is hard to work with

No need to type those in lornmastro, I started a more general version
Thanks though

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

lornmastro

got to love this forum and the people who are on it!!!

BreyerConstruct

Next time youre typing & you sneeze, check first before you post.

Please, any Dutch readers, I'm just joking... and part Dutch.

~Matt

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cstrombe

Slick, I'd love to see your tips/advice. We are preparing to paint some kitchen cabinets with the Fine Paints of Europe.

Many Thanks,
cstrombe

slickshift

I'm sorry to hear that













..and welcome to Contractor Talk

I'll post up or PM you something

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

slickshift

I used BM's Impervo oil-based enamel as a reference, as I have the most experience with it
I hope this helps:

There's a few different products from FPE, but pretty much the same care should be taken with all of them
I'm going to assume it's the Dutchlac or one of the similar ones

When working with FPE I find I have to go back to my first days with oils
Back when oils weren't as easy to use as now
Then everything I learned, like drawing out the paint (pulling it across), not going back over it (over-brushing), sanding between coats...everything was multiplied five times with this stuff

I mean, now that I've done it for years, and Impervo oil goes on so nice, you don't have to worry about those things as much
Yes, they are important, but Impervo is more forgiving

FPE isn't
It's a very old-school paint
Everything must be done precisely and carefully
And it is very difficult to sand off mistakes

Overview:
Check the website
It has some helpful info, take it to heart, but keep in mind I think it is shameful for suggesting a DIYer might use their product successfully

Tools:
I'm always saying how important quality tools are
Well worth the money for Purdys, Coronas, etc.
But there's no reason to go nuts

In this case, I do tend to lean towards a higher end froo-froo brush
I think it does give a little edge, and I think one needs every advantage one can get with this stuff
I'm not sure I would even consider doing a job with FPE and a Purdy...I think I'd want one of the higher end brushes
The Omega brushes they recommend are good
(I tried to use a Purdy one job with it, and I believe I switched back to the Omega after about 10, 20 minutes)
If you’re doing windows (muntins/mullions) or similar trim, you’ll want a rat-tail

...and you'll need tack cloths, lots…and good ones

Thinner/additives:
The person that posted up about using FPEs thinner had some great advice
I'm also fond of saying that FPEs paint is thick as fudge and it's nothing a quart of Penetrol (flow additive) won't cure

FPEs thinner is stronger, and also evaps quicker

Which one works better will probably depend on you, your tools, and the humidity/temp that day

I'd suggest mixing up pretty small batches
And it's highly unlikely you will apply the paint straight
(though you may get there on the last coat, but probably not)

You may want to try test batches of each on some scrap, and find which works better for you
I usually end up varying it during the course of the project
I wouldn't start one w/o both on hand...and probably would try the Penetrol first
The FPE thinner, it's very easy to make the paint too thin
You put enough thinner in so it spreads nice, it'll bite you later as it sags

Primer:
Don't ask me how a company can charge $150 a gallon (US gal) for primer, and then say you should use two coats...but they do
Guess what? It needs it
And a decent sanding in between and after the second coat

Sanding:
Sand between each and every coat, with a quality sand paper
Really, don't get the cheap stuff
Any flat surface you should use a block, and do a nice easy even sanding job

Tack Cloths:
You'll need to do a tack between each coat...and a good one too
Like the rest of the steps, a quick wipe will bite you later
Sometimes I feel like I have to grind the cloth in there

Technique:
This will be the hardest to give you a heads-up over the internet
It's really a learned thing, or a show-me thing

I'd say practice
Pull the paint across, go back as little as possible, keep pulling one way as much as possible, blending in your freshly dipped brush by lightly touching down on the wet edge of what's on already, ad pressing harder as you pull into the non-wet area you are covering
Don't over-brush...it will sag
(you kinda have to go back a little, but that's a feel thing, I can't tell you how much)

I like to do a once over, long light sweep of the whole piece after I've applied it, to smooth out any lap marks, but that will only work if you haven't over-brushed....a little to much brush work and that long sweep will cause a sag

Sags and Drips:
There's no good way to really save them and have it look good
Best not to get them
If you do, let them dry and carefully putty knife and/or sand them off/out and re-coat
I hesitate to mention that the best way I found to get rid of some of them (on the completely flat surfaces) is a very light touch with a very high speed sander
It works, but is not for the squeamish...or for those who don't have a light touch and/or a steady hand

Coats:
You should be doing two coats primer and no fewer than three top coats
Possibly four, at least in spots

Bidding:
Yes, that means any bid for this stuff should be for 5 coats, tough to use, intense prep, oil paint...and then add some extra because you easily could use four color coats and need some serious back-tracking/sag-repair etc.
And those are "Euro-Gallons", it takes 1.68 of them to equal a real gallon
That's $149.52 a (real) gallon

Any questions please ask
And thanks lornmastro for saving those instructions and sending them back to me so I didn't have to re-write them

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr