Former Paint Rep Now Painter - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

thepaintman80 · 12-12-2005, 07:34 PM

After years of being a paint rep I decided to start my own painting business. Over the years I saw good painter who were poor businessmen and good businessmen who are poor painters. I know I am agood businessman and a pretty good painter. I had a customer that was my boss and co-worker. He started a painting business in Sacramento and he is doing great. He is such a genius when it comes to business and he has hired good painters and other good business people. Now residing in Maine I don't suspect I will have the same oppritunity to grow a business like his but I do think there is a niche for a painter who has a substancial technical knowledge, uses the latest technology,and is able to run a business. I plan on doing the painting along with a friend (who will work for me). I am thinking of doing some consulting for the "Do-It-Yourselfer". I can walk into Sherwin Williams here and get worse advice than I would in a home center.

I have seen some people in this board I think I know (from Northern California) and many I don't know. I look forward to joining in the discussion.

**Teetorbilt** · 12-12-2005, 08:31 PM

Welcome to the BB! Sounds like you will make a great addition. Inside info (dirt) is always useful to those of us without it.

**ProWallGuy** · 12-12-2005, 09:31 PM

Welcome from a painter/paperhanger located in St. Louis, MO.

Exroadog · 12-12-2005, 09:47 PM

"Now residing in Maine I don't suspect I will have the same oppritunity to grow a business like his but I do think there is a niche "

I am also on the mid coast of Maine and your selling yourself short! This place is full of victorian mansions. If you want to paint condos this is the wrong place but if you can do high end, your insured, and have integrity, the builders are looking for you!

saucedo80 · 12-12-2005, 11:14 PM

Hey do you know me man Im from northern california, maybe you were my paint rep

thepaintman80 · 12-13-2005, 01:45 AM

Well I was a Rep in Sacramento. I worked for Kelly-Moore for almost ten years, also Vista Paint out of Rocklin. I was a rep for Flecto (makers of Varathane) as well as Glidden/Ralph Lauren. My last position was as a consultant for Meeks Lumber in Rocklin. If you are a painter near either Sacramento area Meeks you need to go see the paint people there. I was able to sell below cost to buy the buisness. I was selling Dap Painters caulk for 70 cents a tube. 1" 3M 2020 tape for 75 cents a roll. They really want to sell paint but Devoe is a poor partner and doesn't support Meeks. I was calling on Builders but couldn't even get a fan deck from Devoe. It was really a joke. Meeks is a super company, Devoe however was similar to Glidden, a company run by people that know marketing, supply chains, but not paint and painters.

thepaintman80 · 12-13-2005, 01:50 AM

Exroadog, your site is great. You really are an artisan. You are the sort of person I enjoyed doing business with. I was wondering if the PDCA is active here at all. Who's material do you use?

**slickshift** · 12-13-2005, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepaintman80

...I can walk into Sherwin Williams here and get worse advice than I would in a home center.

Around here it's close, but generally the SW personel will give slightly better advice than the bigorange or bigblue places...lol
That's why I'm a Ben Moore guy

Welcome thepaintman80!

**slickshift** · 12-13-2005, 12:47 PM

Re: Location: Mid Coast Maine
I spent many summers camping in Winter Harbor while growing up
That's sorta mid-coast right?
Sure was beautiful up there

**slickshift** · 12-13-2005, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift

Around here it's close...

And I just realized my "joke" in my location won't let you know where I am now
Lol
I'm on the Connecticut shore, on the corner of the CT River and L.I. Sound
I've been here for years
I am moving to Cape Cod though...and half my stuff's on it's way there now
Hence the "location"

thepaintman80 · 12-13-2005, 02:58 PM

Out West Depot made a push to get "real" paint people. Myself and another guy went to work supposedly to show them how to run a paint operation aimed at pros as opposed to DIY'ers. It was a horrible failure, I sat down with a divisional guy who explained my ideas were right on but Depot would be unable to do what it would take to run my program. I left shortly after that. Meeks lumber wanted the same kinda thing, they wanted me to get an operation running. Problem was when I brought them to the water I couldn't get them to drink. The reality is you have to have good people in your stores. No matter how tight the outside guys and gals are with their customers if there isn't someone in the store to help them it's all for not.

**slickshift** · 12-13-2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepaintman80

...The reality is you have to have good people in your stores....if there isn't someone in the store to help them it's all for not.

Yup
....and thanks for the inside look-see

Exroadog · 12-13-2005, 07:41 PM

thepaintman80.....we use mostly BM but for the last month and next (same job) the designer specd California Paints out of MA. There ceramic matte line. Trim in ceramic semi-gloss which is a nice paint. Most of our clients, and builders want BM. Usually do all my prep with zinsser products. The past year has been probably 80% BM....18% CA. Paints......2% SW
Slickshift... where on the Cape are you headed? Did some work in Chatham.

AAPaint · 12-13-2005, 07:54 PM

Welcome aboard paintman....tell me more about those paint prices. I use mostly SW, but I have hooked up with a good BM store here recently that gives me pretty good pricing. Should we just go in and keep beating up on our sales rep till our prices are really good or what? How does a small business guy like me get the prices the big dogs are? Your insight will be much appreciated...

**slickshift** · 12-13-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exroadog

Slickshift... where on the Cape are you headed? Did some work in Chatham.

West Yarmouth
Smack dab in the middle of the lower arm
Hyannis to the west, Dennis to the east, Chatham a little farther east

**slickshift** · 12-13-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

How does a small business guy like me get the prices the big dogs are? Your insight will be much appreciated...

Well, there's a question and a half
I'd have to second that one
Any tips, tricks, or solutions would be greatly appreciated

George Z · 12-13-2005, 08:43 PM

Why are we so obsessed about pricing of paints?
Do we want our customers to be that obsessed about our pricing?
Paint is usually 10-12% of any contract.
I make it a point not to haggle about paint prices.
As a result our dealer loves us and will do anything to help.
For example: A few thousands of gallons later there has been no mistake
mixing any colour (never). We don't have to ever check it. Can you put
a price on that? I will gladly pay a few extra dollars for that kind of service.
Also, If you mark-up your paints, the more expensive the paint is the
more profit your percentage of mark-up will make you.

**slickshift** · 12-13-2005, 09:38 PM

I don't question my guy about his pricing
Ever
As a result I get what I feel is a fantastic discount
And he will send a kid out with a few gallons if I am short
...a few gallons

I agree with you George Z, 100%

However, that is a great question to ask

"How does a small business guy like me get the prices the big dogs are?"

I'm not sure the 11 van outfit in town is getting that much of a better deal on paint than me
But I'd like to find out
I know there's lots of stuff they get charged for that I don't, I've been behind their guys in line at the shop
I have to figure that in too

I won't 'beat up" or "haggle" with my guy, that won't happen
Ever
But if proposing a "minumum gal. purchase per quarter met, 2% discount"...or whatever is in order, I should at least look into it

George Z · 12-13-2005, 09:54 PM

Here is a question I am curious about:
What sort of mark-up does the paint store add?
Do top lines have more mark-up?

thepaintman80 · 12-13-2005, 10:35 PM

Here is how it works out West. The paint companies are in such a peeing match they will do just about anything for business. Vista and Frazee will actually give pumps away. The condition is that you purchase a set amount per quarter. That stuff killed me. I could sell a pump at cost but I couldn't give one away. I don't think beating your rep up is a good idea. The way I approached my customers was on a case by case basis. I knew a small time painter that was a cashier part time. He told me he wanted to paint full time but didn't know what to do or how to do it. I cut him a pretty big discount so he could use his money for advertising, start up cost, etc. Well to make a long story short he became one of my biggest, most loyal customers. What do you reps do for you back East. Are they helping you collect your money (I did), writing specs, drumming up business, etc, etc.? If my rep wasn't working for me I'm not going to pay extra for a service that isn't there. I think matrix pricing is the most fair for everyone. The products you use the most you pay the least for, but when you buy that odd gallon of floor paint you pay more.

A good thing to do is find a dealer who is new to the business or struggling. They most often will offer better deals to buy some business. There is nothing worse than purchasing shakers, tint wheels, etc. only to have them sit silent.

Also out West rebates are big. A painter will get quaterly or annual rebates, so at the end of the year the rep and painter tally the invoices and a check is cut. Many of my customers were getting 200-300 quarterly or 1000-2000 annually. Then there is the 1% deducted from the monthly bill if it was paid by the 10th. What amazed me was that there were alot of painters who knew about these deals yet did not take advantage of them. Also with new construction and small builders the deals aren't made with the painter. SW and ICI are known as the whores of the paint industry because they offer deals no other paint company can compete with. Eventually when the Dunne Edwards, Kelly-Moore's, Spectra-tones, Vista's will be forced out of business or swallowed up (like Duron, Fuller O'Brien, Sinclair, etc.) and even out West SW will be able to charge pretty much what it wants.

I was shocked on my first trip to the ICI mother ship in Cleveland when I learned how the East Coast pays for the West Coast, and the Consumer division makes the money while the contractor end loses money every year.

The small guys best chance at getting better pricing is to shop companies against each other (keeping in mind value added services). Save invoices, show the rep your potential. Getting to know you rep is a good thing, treat him or her to lunch once in a while and talk in terms of partnership. I can only speak for myself but I love painters and my desire was to see small business people succeed and I shared that success. Perhaps that is why I was a rep for the largest independent paint company in the US at 24. I sure have met some piss poor reps. Fat and happy reps that only care about themselves and their golf game.