Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft

 
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:14 AM   #21
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


Thank you, very informative.

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Old 05-08-2017, 05:42 AM   #22
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


IMHO ......

Sherwin Williams ProMar 400 is OK for contractor grade where you are doing a lot of volume. The Promar 200 has a little too much sheen for my liking. The 400 touches up pretty well without too much noticeable flashing, But the 200 series touch up really jumps when the light hits it. The 200 series looks like crap on knockdown ceilings as well. I stopped using the 200 altogether. Anyone who tells you that there isn't much difference, has not used to two series enough to honestly know the difference between them.

My go to "bulletproof" flat ceiling paint is the Benjamin Moore Muresco series applied with a 1/2" nap microfiber. It likes to go on a little on the heavy side. I have done the usual 2 coats with it, and single coat "hit & run jobs, and I can barely tell any difference. It has the best "hide" that I have ever seen in a flat white ceiling paint and is the flattest looking finish I have seen. I have sprayed & back rolled with it over texture, or just rolled it out on slick lids. It's actually fun to work with.....if that makes any sense.
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:36 AM   #23
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
I am a Sherwin Williams guy. So If I walked into a JC Licht store I wouldn't be able to tell you what to use.
My comment wasn't directed towards the SW question, it was about the friend telling him paint could flash and asking for a system. I left SW about 9 years ago and will never go back I wouldn't be able to tell the OP what's the best to use either.

What I've used since from SW (not purchased by me) I have nothing good to say about. I was using Promar 200 on ceilings, Cashmere or Duration on walls and Proclassic on woodwork.

They kept changing their products, not for the better and jacking up their prices. One of the main reasons I left them was due to the abundance of incompetence at all of their stores.

The OP should be able to walk into any paint store and ask what is your best true flat paint but he probably won't get the correct answer. I'm not knocking him for suggestions on what paint from SW to use.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:18 PM   #24
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


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I am getting ready to paint a brand new 3,300 sq ft million dollar home 10ft ceilings (except for tall living room). Walls and ceilings same color (light grey) and everything will be flat paint.



What system would you use to paint. My friend told me even on some of these paints a flat can flash on top of flat. For example i spray and backroll the ceilings first and then do the walls next i will have some overspray going up to the ceiling that could flash.



Wondering a recommendation for which Sherwin Flat ?



Assuming i need to backroll ceilings both coats to avoid having to sand them in-between coats...



MUCH APPRECIATED


...


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Old 05-08-2017, 07:26 PM   #25
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


you say you are getting ready to paint this house, how on earth did you bid it without knowing / pricing products. Alas hers is my suggestion:
Prime all drywall with a quality primer, no not use cheap pva. Spray and back roll your primer.
Spray two coats of Promar Ceiling paint, ultra flat and no need to back roll.
For walls cut in the ceiling with a brush and spray and back roll two coats of SW Emerald flat. Use only the best quality paint, the customer does not want to repaint in 3 or 4 years..
Some may say you don't need to cut in as you can just use a shield but loading up and cleaning off a shield is a hastle I find. Do Not allow over spray on the ceiling.
Got large walls with light streaming across? Be prepared.

I like the Graco spray / roller, Power roller I think it may be called. One man can spray and back roll at same time, very efficient, maybe worth investing in one.
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:55 PM   #26
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


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you say you are getting ready to paint this house, how on earth did you bid it without knowing / pricing products.
He went for the moon and got it...lol
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:44 PM   #27
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


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I like the Graco spray / roller, Power roller I think it may be called. One man can spray and back roll at same time, very efficient, maybe worth investing in one.
Jet Roller.

Good value, comes with the in-line gun and end of wand check valve. I like the one I have.

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Old 05-08-2017, 09:27 PM   #28
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


Thanks for the input guys. Yes I make plenty of money all my needs are met but I blame that on the Lord more than any doing of my own. We are pretty blessed. As far as why do I use flat instead of drywall primer/sealer ??? I started painting here in neBraska when I was 18. The guy that I worked for for several years this was his system. I worked for a couple different contractors also as the years progressed and they used the same system. Never have really put much thought into WHY ??? maybe (and I'm guessing here) because you cant tint the primer/sealer to the exact color ?? so when we're painting 8364 blah blah blah in satin or egg shell we buy 8364 blah blah blah in flat and it's the exact same color. I don't know if you can tint drywall primer to the exact number. That is a GUESS maybe you can ? Doesn't matter I know the majority of all of us reputable painters here and have never seen anyone use drywall primer. I'm sure maybe some of these guys around here that are starting their own companies their sales reps probably sold it to them but I don't know any of them guys. Me and 5 or 6 of my friends that all use to work for this guy when we were 18ish all started subcontracting in our mid 20's and within a couple years we all started our own painting company's. We do small homes and also the nicest million dollar homes. I nor nobody I know (my friends that have painting company's here) have ever once had a problem or an issue or a call back whatsoever as far as paint issues from using flat as a primer. I have never considered using drywall primer for obvious reasons (zero problems) As far as the guy who says we have been doing things half ass for the last 30 years well to each their own. You don't do half ass work in Omaha and go from one house to another back to back for decades. It only takes a couple jacked up houses or 2 and everybody knows who you are and you WONT be going into homes Like we do any longer .I still have a lot to learn there is no doubt I will always be teachable but I am here to progress and move forward and try to continue to provide top quality work and reach out to others like I did here. I was not expecting the comments like "ask your sales rep" and "if your a real painter" etc. I usually don't respond to nonsense but this way y'all can have an idea about where I am at MUCH APPRECIATED and thank y'all for the actual advice and experiences I am going to try to attach some pictures of the exterior of the house I am talking about. I made a thread about it asking about TWP before I did the exterior ... another "newbie" "this guy is not a real painter" thread also to some but I have only done a couple fences and decks in the past not 5,000 sq ft of cypruss siding !anyways it came out beautiful as well as the inside will be
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:43 PM   #29
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


Once again I have really good pics I can't post. When I try to post from my iPhone it uploads the images and there is a a "close this window" box that WONT close . When I go to my MacBook and login it shows me logged in . As soon as I click of "forum" it in logs me out !
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:55 PM   #30
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


I have found 2 coats of tinted primer and 2 coats of paint to produce fantastic results. Doesn't matter that the primer doesn't take the tint the exact same....it still is in the ballpark and really does the finished product a lot of justice
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:33 AM   #31
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


I've been "slinging paint" for only 3 years, but if there's one thing i learned, it is: "you don't know what you don't know" and so I do my best to read up on the science, and the "why's" of what I am doing.

One thing I learned in factory work is that the saying "That's the ways it been done for the last 20 years!" is the wrong answer. Simply because things change over time, there are newer, better ways of doing things, because the industry is always evolving and learning more.

Remember kids: At one time cigarrette smoking was perfectly healthy

As far as quality of paint, I'll chime in on it. But keep in mind I only burn through an average of 200 gallons a month...

The promar line of paints was never designed for durabilty. It was designed for applications where repainting was a given within 3 years max. Promar has been divided into 3 distinct #'s : 200. 400, and 700.

The higher the number, the less durable. You may notice this is if you go out and buy a gallon of semi gloss 200 and 700. 700 will appear to be more "watery". This is because there is more filler than solids in it compared to 200.

Ever hear of the sheen scale? 0 is flat, 100 is high gloss?

On your lower end paints, there is more variance withing the sheen range from one bucket to the next. Higher end lines its less variance.

Now for the "myth" that flat paint is as good as primer. I hired a sub with that mentality and did some investigating of my own. Did you know that primer is designed with additives to help with adhesion? Whereas flat paint is more for hiding.

This is even more critical as the industry has moved away from oil based paints to Latex and acrylics. So what has "been working" noo longer applies.

This is why you use primer on raw drywall. Adhesion, silly. Your not aiming for "hiding", you want to maximize the chance of adhesion. The next coats you put on will do the hiding.

You may not have ever heard of anyone admitting to adhesion failure, but wait till there's a water leak in the wall. Keep in mind, I work in apartments so I get the joy of seeing every possible wrong scenario. I've been the guy to roll on the 50th coat 30 years after initial construction and have the paint peel off in my roller all the way back to drywall.

So if you are doing a "high end job" I would suggest you use no less than Sher Scrub as your flat. But honestly, I would go all the way to the top of the line. High end jobs get high end materials.

Unless you are only offering a "tail light warranty"...

As for the not factoring in materials UPON SUBMITTING THE BID...thats just bad business, and shows you just dont know what you don't know...

You are leaving alot of money on the table. Simply because different paints require different application methods. How pissed would you be if you bought promar 700 and had to do 6 coats vs buying the higher stuff and doing 2 coats?

But that's ok, we will sit back and let you do the extra labor for free because you did not spec the right material for the job before you started...
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:45 AM   #32
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


Thanks for the explaination about using flat instead of primer. If it works for ya ..... good on ya!! I was curious, I think I will stay with primer. I have never had a fail with that too.

Carry on!!
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:16 PM   #33
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


I'm not a painter, but as a builder in a second home market Cashmere is not seen as high end as Duration. I'd spec Duration. If it's new construction I'm surprised the GC didn't spec his paint. We use a sealing drywall primer. Super Paint looks good also imo, just doesn't have the name recoginition.

I don't like the sheen or lustre of Cashmere on anything with texture. Looks great on smooth walls, which is rare here. All perspective. We use Emerald a lot on exteriors with a deep base and it seems to do well.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:38 PM   #34
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


Does cashmere look good specifically as a flat?
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:29 PM   #35
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


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Does cashmere look good specifically as a flat?
Yes it does look good, and it has a nice deep look.

But, you need work fast with Cashmere flat from my experience, especially if you are a brush and roll painter like myself. I have seen a few really good painters struggle with it because the edge dries faster than a tire thief.

I cut in Cashmere flat with my usual 2 1/2 angle brush and follow the brush with a 4" inch roller within a 1/4" of the ceiling. Cashmere can really expose the difference between brush tipping and roller stippling at the ceiling cut in. I have a guy with a roller right behind me and we work a bit faster to keep wet edges.

If I am doing something wrong, and if anyone has any tips with Cashmere...........please chime in?
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:44 PM   #36
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


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Yes it does look good, and it has a nice deep look.

But, you need work fast with Cashmere flat from my experience, especially if you are a brush and roll painter like myself. I have seen a few really good painters struggle with it because the edge dries faster than a tire thief.

I cut in Cashmere flat with my usual 2 1/2 angle brush and follow the brush with a 4" inch roller within a 1/4" of the ceiling. Cashmere can really expose the difference between brush tipping and roller stippling at the ceiling cut in. I have a guy with a roller right behind me and we work a bit faster to keep wet edges.

If I am doing something wrong, and if anyone has any tips with Cashmere...........please chime in?
I haven't used Cashmere in years so I have no idea if the formulation has changed today's low or no voc paints dry faster. A 2-1/2 inch angle is too small to be cutting in walls,. Always cut in the walls and allow it to dry before rolling.

Last edited by avenge; 05-09-2017 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 05-09-2017, 08:56 PM   #37
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


My first advice would be "don't use flat paint". It is totally unwashable. If you're worried about flashing use a matte finish. That won't flash and it's still washable. For me we would use Pro-Mar 200 or Duration both in a Matte finish and ceilings would be painted with Pro-Mar 200 flat. We buy about 50 to 100k worth of paint every year so I'm not a novice on this subject.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:04 PM   #38
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


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My first advice would be "don't use flat paint". It is totally unwashable. If you're worried about flashing use a matte finish. That won't flash and it's still washable. For me we would use Pro-Mar 200 or Duration both in a Matte finish and ceilings would be painted with Pro-Mar 200 flat. We buy about 50 to 100k worth of paint every year so I'm not a novice on this subject.
I've never liked the lay of Matte. We typically use Egg Shell on walls and CHB on ceilings. CHB is the chit for ceilings.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:08 AM   #39
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


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CHB is the chit for ceilings.
I agree, almost as good as the old Classic 99 Ceiling paint.

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Old 05-10-2017, 12:32 AM   #40
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Re: Which Flat Paint From Sherwin Williams In A Million Dollar Home 3,300 Sq Ft


Well 20 plus years of ZERO adhesion problems or fail of any kind using flat paint as a primer I would say we are all good here as well all all the other contractors. Like I said I don't know know one contractor using it. The homeowner wants flat so I will give them what they want. We have decided on superpaint flat for walls chb on ceilings and eggshell DTM on metal jambs. I WISH I COLD POST PICS !!!! as far as submitting a bid it was verbal I have never had a written contract with a builder here in my life and have never been screwed over. Once again not as professional as most but no problems whatsoever just how I do it if a builder did want something official I would sign but never been in that situation. As far as what type of paint and how many coats I have plenty of money in the bid for the very best anything less is just more money in the bank. I'm not very technical or on point as far as running a business the way it should be ran (business wise not performance wise) I absolutely know that but I can clear as much money if not more than the people who "do it right" who I actually hope to be like somebody I am just too busy painting and cashing checks and a very undisciplined person but very successful and happy as well with no slowing down in sight !

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