Exterior Prep Question

cnydave

I bought a house about a year ago. Replaced and wrapped all windows and doors. The inside stripped, replumbed, rewired, rearranged and finished.

Next is the exterior, looks like cr*p...cedar clap ( about 40 sq.) is peeling/bubbling. I would like keep the cedar, replace the fascias and soffits. I'm rather against vinyl, I've wrapped scores of homes but I prefer wood.

I need some input on prepping, I was looking into infrared removers. I have no experience with these, j looking for advice.

ty

painterman

check this linkl out http://www.oceanmanorhouse.com/paintremover.html

cnydave

Seen that just today...thing is, I don't have a clue how efficient these are (time wise)...When and if the snow ever melts up here...I really don't want to be starring at the same sq of cedar for a week, with a scraper and 1/2 a toaster in my hands.

slickshift

I would consider those if there was a chance lead was involved
The cost is high though...to buy one just for your own home

Other than that, the paint eaters and such (mechanical removal) are more affordable
There's a couple of brands on the market

But it does sound like you may want a full strip on this one

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

cnydave

Thanks slick, the house was built in 1946, lead could be present. I really don't want any abrasives...full strip is my goal, then I could do a double prime, 1st w/ linseed base.

Cost is really not a factor, my wife refinishes antique furniture, so she could benefit w/this. Or I could throw it on my pile of power tools I don't care for (esp. those yellow ones from HD).

Still was wondering the time factor...looks like the home was only painted twice.

BCPNJ

Test for lead. If you're all clear, than I would go with sanders/grinders. You have to have a soft touch though w/cedar. After using the grinder, go w/ a palm sander to get any left over paint and disk marks. Don't kill the wood, better to use a lighter grit and take down slow.

If you have lead, chemical strip it . This will probably take longer, but you can't throw lead dust around. You might want to let a lead abatement contractor strip it.

As for finishing, since you'll have bare wood, consider a solid stain. Use a good oil base tannin blocking primer like cabots problem solver. Then top coat w/ an acrylic solid stain. I would go with cabots or moores. One or two coat prime, two coat finish. The stain won't peel or pop like paint, it will wear away. Every time you need to do it again, just powerwash, spot prime, and apply one coat of stain. Easy maintenance.

As far as how much time to strip... as long as it takes. Long being the key word. It's definetley not a fast or easy job. I only do stripping jobs on a t&m basis.

Sounds like a nice project though.

mjay

I disagree on a couple of points.

1st Chemical strip.
Any chemicals you use to strip paint from wood will be absorbed by the wood, nuetralizing will not sufficiently remove these chemicals and they will eventually leech and break down any paint/primer applied.
Try a pro-shaver attached to a hepa vacuum to remove paint from cedar siding, use a filter and bag in the vacuum. Finish with pro-sander attached to same vacuum set-up.
Check your local codes for lead paint removal. Wear bunny suit and n100 mask, use face shield for eye protection [won't fog up]. Seal windows, cleanup daily and thoroughly. Set-up an area to change clothes and shoes outside, don't walk into the house wearing the clothes, shoes you just wore while working, same for the car/truck.
This link will help withl the safety stuff.
http://www.hud.gov/offices/lead/training/LBPguide.pdf
The infrared system is time-consuming and only warranted [IMHO] in high risk areas [e.g. close to schools, indoors, public areas].

2. Solid Color Stain is a film forming finish.
Therefore it will be just as likely to peel/blister as paint if there is a moisture/preperation issue.
If your going to use a film forming finish use 100% acrylic exterior house paint [I recommend California's]. I tend to prime using Trouble-Shooter Alkyd Linseed Oil Primer [be sure to wait 48hrs before applying finish coats]. An acrylic primer followed by two acrylic finish is the paint system recommended by Western Red Cedar Assoc. However, cedar does tend to bleed so I recommend the oil primer.
There are pros and cons of stain versus paint, but understand the difference between film forming stains and penetrating stains.

3. Never powerwash your siding.
Use a pressure washer to rinse your siding sure, but to clean or prep never. Powerwashing will force water will into the pores and possibly behind the siding, no reasonable amount of drying time will allow that trapped water to dissipate and will thus likely cause premature paint failure/blistering.
Plus use of powerwasher to remove lead paint from any surface requires collecting of all water and correct disposal.
If you want to clean wood siding get the bristle brush and bucket out.

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There's some top class people on this forum,........and then there's me...Touching cloth.

Any Season

Dave,

I agree that the 'old' way is the best. Scrape and sand everything then oil prime, then finish coat. In this situation I would also suggest installing siding, or 'wedge' vents beneath the clapboards semi sporadically. This will help to air out the siding of any moisture and all of the sanding will fix any inter-coat adhesion issues which I would bet the farm are the reasons for the bubbles. Good luck.

-Jay

BCPNJ

mjay, I guess we'll agree to disagree on some points.

Point one- chem. strip.

I've stripped and finished enough wood to know your statement is not true. As long as you neutralize after stripping, there will not be any primer failure. Period. It's never happened to me and I have customers for over 15 years in witch I've done this exact work for. Think by now there would have been primer "breakdown?"

As for a proshaver and related equip.

Good if your a Lead abator, but since the O.P. was aking a simple painting question so I kinda doubt he's an expert in this field. And EXPERT is what you have to be when dealing with lead dust. I'm not sure about where you live (NY?) , but in N.J. one must be certified, and I'm sure all states have some regulation. It's irresponsible to tell someone to just get some equipment and dig in, which is why I suggested chem. strip or lead abatement company should lead be present.

Solid stain.

Solid acrylic stain is not going to blister and pop like paint will on clap.To paint it again after a 100% strip is just creating the same problem down the road. We agree on primer. I like Cabots problem solver oil, but any like product will also work. If the O.P. wants to paint it again, why go through all that trouble of stripping? Scrape, spot, and paint it, or partially strip it' then paint it. My rule on exterior painting is to use the LEAST amount of material to get the MOST protection. In other words, you don't want a build up of material.

As far as powerwashing.

Your just not doing it right if your jobs don't dry out. Don't kill the wood. Powerwashing is about cleaning the surface to a point without damaging it. Experience will tell you exactly how far to go. Sometimes a job is so far gone (like a deck for example) that it can only come back so much at one time and only with subsequent washing can it be restored.( I even put that in my proposal). Powerwashing is a must for any exterior job imo, but you have to have the experience to use it properly.

To the original poster, if your going to 100% strip, go with a solid stain over the proper primer and save yourself another strip job down the road.

Good luck to all.

mjay

I'm sure the OP is savy enough to gather the information and make up his own mind.
In the meantime here's what I like to call a "handbags at 20yards" for your amusement.

OP good luck with the project, there's few things more satisfying than restoring a home.

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There's some top class people on this forum,........and then there's me...Touching cloth.

PlainPainter

I've used high pressure power washers to prep homes for years and have always laughed at the getting the moisure behind the claps arguement. You sure do get lots of water behind the claps - but so what? Why do you think there is tons of peeling on a home in the first place? What do you think is really the only reason? It's because of of improper roofing or just plain aging - but water finds an ingress to leak down the backside of siding - I have much photos and movie of this happening. So if it's peeling the moisture is already there. Now the use of a high pressure with or without a 'turbo' nozzle will knock off an incredible amount of paint - more so than guys working for me would have done with scrapers. Now what you have done is physically removed large patches of paint - and now you have much exposed wood - that now efficiently acts as a wick to leech out moisture. Now wait a week - or two, sometimes in really wet times I have waited a month - but the siding has always dried out for me 100% of the time.

I find the reasons behind moisture problem - are as follows, there is an ingress for water to leak into, and this 'ingress' is never resolved and with each repeated rain, this moisture area gets worse and worse. Pressure washing is a one time deal - it has actually exasperated certain ingresses and showed up as blistering paint 10 feet below - which allowed me to more thoroughly scrape away and grind these areas. But with appropriate time to dry - all siding, as long as mother nature cooperates, can become thoroughly dry.

Now any physical damage due to high pressure washing is easily remedied by palm sander and/or grinders. And areas which soak up moisture at this point in time can be drenched with solutions of Boiled linseed oil/fungicides/acetone to fully soak the pores of wood with a curing oil and the acetone to effectively to latch on to any remaining moisture and pull it out as it evaporates. And then prime.

I have done homes like this with severe peeling problems and have resurrected the situation completely.

Any Season

Plain,

I'm not sure if I entirely agree with you here. First, do you either save time or get substantially better results in blasting a house with water then waiting upwards of a month for it to dry when you could go through the entire home by hand and get better results without subjecting your home to all of that water? Second, palm sanding is essential but there are some cases where it is not the solution, for example, when you have cedar clapboards where the wood grain has become dry, and separated (often on siding w/ mill glaze), also on cedar clap when the wood fiber becomes dryed and raised, and splinters outward.

Those were just a couple of things but mainly, the assumption that because powerwashing is a 'one time thing', and there is a moisture problem 'anyways' that you chaulk up to a bad roof or whatever is kind of confusing.

mjay

There's a market for all types of prep and finish. Not all clients can afford or are willing to pay for the premium prep and finish, and not all projects warrant the premium prep and finish [barns e.g.].
And while Plainpainter you may have found a market that suits your methods, it does not make that method the correct approach for restoring cedar clapboard siding.
My market appears different to Plainpainters. We are in the business of restoring, and renovating siding.

The original poster was interested in removing paint from cedar siding in a safe and economical fashion. Anybody that continues to argue or recommend that a pressure washer is a useful tool to remove paint safely without damage to the substrate [cedar siding in this case], is ill-informed.

There's a plethora of information available at your finger tips. Gather the facts and make informed decisions.

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PlainPainter

Here is a home with a paint job that was only 3 yrs. old when I was asked to redo it again. I scraped this house until there was nothing left to scrape and disposed of all the paint chips. Then I took my pressure washer and with a turbo tip - went and used high pressure all around the house and removed just as much paint as the first go around. Here I am going around - re-scraping and orbital sanding. As I am one guy - the house sits a good time before I am actually ready for primer.

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PlainPainter

Close up of one section after palm sanding....

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PlainPainter

After everything has been scraped, then pressure washed, then scraped again and palm sanded and lastly all horrible clapboards replace - and all cuts primed before nailing them up. God I wish contractors would do this.

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PlainPainter

Where I begin applying my specially formulated penetrating oil formula that not only penetrates and fills the pores of the wood also introduces important fungicides and has an additive that leaches out any remaining moisture - but trust me - those claps are bone dry - even though they had been the recipient of 2800psi pressure washing just 3 weeks before.

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PlainPainter

Everything is oiled and ready for primer - well it needs to sit for a couple of days to exhaust all the solvents.

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PlainPainter

Everything is primed with California's long dry oil primer.

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PlainPainter

Well those are the facts.