Email Complaint from customer + Painters Email Back - Page 4 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

DavidNTX · 05-24-2009, 09:33 AM

Of course salesmanship is needed. Many times salesmanship helps to sell your professionalism.

The brother in law I mentioned has several estimators/salesmen. He also has 1 guy that does nothing but sells the jobs if the estimator can't. He does a good job of selling but he isn't selling using fast and loose stories. There are times they will say anything to make a sell and some of those times have come back to bite him but without a certain amount of professionalism those sells would be harder to make. They have taken plenty of work away from me with their salesmanship.

All of his estimators are in their late 20s and early 30s and there is a reason for that. Usually the general contractors that he works for has estimators about that age and they are the ones who actually decide who gets the contracts. He wants his estimators/sales people to be in the same age group. That way his estimators can take the guys selling the jobs out for drinks or to lunch and will have a lot more in common, things to talk about. Let's face it, those guys in their 20s and 30s wouldn't want to go out drinking with us old guys. That is a smart thing on his part.

He also has a boat. It is almost 50 feet long and he uses it to take contractors and other people deep sea fishing. This too is a sales tool. I bet that boat gets him quite a bit of work too.

Salesmanship and sales tools are not a problem. Without having shown these people an amount of professionalism they would never make a sell. These general contractors realize that they too have to be able to sell the painter's product to the owner. The professionalism sells the job, the talk closes the deal.

I agree there are some people who can sell a job on just talk. That is a problem for all of us. Unless this contractor has the goods to backup his talk with good services then it is a potential problem for the next painter that comes along. It might be years down the road but one day when this customer needs more painting and has been jacked around in the past, the next guy to try and make a sell will have the unprofessionalism of the last painter to contend with. You can't blame the customer for this either.

George Z · 05-24-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsremodeling

Some home owner's are use to that. In the market I am in. Its the well dressed guys, driving nice trucks, that have all been trained by some national sales guru that do well.

I go to the meetings and I am amazed that these guys do so well.

The down to earth regular Joe the contractor do not stand a chance against their marketing hype.

When I first moved to DC/MD I was out classed on salesmanship.

My work was better than a lot of guys and companies, but their image, salesmanship and marketing hype blew me out of the water.

So I learned very early on to offer a hybrid of good salesman ship and a good quality product.

If you want to have anything resembling a life, not be working past 65 and not be the sole person that runs your company and have some freedom to enjoy other things outside you contracting business, you need a few of the slick talking salesman or become your own if you have too.

I am trying that right now.
Sales is a full time job, I have 2-3 of those already

rbsremodeling · 05-24-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

I am trying that right now.
Sales is a full time job, I have 2-3 of those already

2 or 3 of the slick talking salsmen?

Mr. Mike · 05-24-2009, 02:30 PM

Let me come back down to reality for you:

I started this painting company in 1996, did about 200 to 250 jobs every year since then. I used to do on average 1200 estimates per year on some it would take me 4 minutes to write it up and drop off the price, hardly ever would I sign a contract with in 2 weeks of giving the price.

I said a few years ago if I could learn how to sale I could do less estimates, spending less money on advertising, and still do the same amount of jobs. So then I hired a salesman and another and another only to afterwords ask one of them who I could go visit and train up to be a good or mediocre salesman.

I have to take it back up a notch:

I went and listened to about a 7 hour seminar and spent $600 on some Cd's while I was there. I listened to the Cd's for 2 days and went and did my first estimate with the training I did and sold it, on my next 11 leads I sold 9 out of them. I did seek a better way of selling just a year ago, found it and brought my findings in here to share them. If you did not pick up already on it I would laugh in your face 10 years ago if you told me you could close on the first visit or over 20% however I was spending 25k a year at that time and 5 years ago my advertising budget was over $40k, last year we spent only $5k and did 278 jobs with only 600 leads, my last salesperson only landed about 40% I went and trained and since July of last year I am around 75% in the last 3 months and I have been at 88% so this will get better. I know I am great and not just mediocre at selling and closing, I will never go back to the write a price up and leave. I did not come out of college and start painting and or did not work for a car lot and start a painting company because I can sale, I started learning how to sale because years of painting showed me there had to be an easier way to get these jobs.

For the record take or leave the percentages all of my percentages are based on many things, however I have been consistent on the way I figure what is a lead and what is not in the resi-repaint world. I will tell you this if I was to figure in every time my email went off and phone rang for estimates my closing percentage would drop way down, these percentages are based off of prospects and not suspects.

Mr. Mike · 05-24-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

2 or 3 of the slick talking salsmen?

George does more estimates than most painters, he may not use slick talkers and has said before he would not hire a slick talker I think. Me doing over 3000 jobs since 1996 and training up a little on sales gives me the confidence to say what I say in front of prospects to earn their business.

Handymanservice · 05-24-2009, 03:00 PM

I have followed this thread and I find some of the ideas just blatantly wrong. But that is only MY opinion. I say if something works for you, use it, it does not matter what anyone else thinks.

We all like to think the way we do things is the right and proper way, but there are many ways to achieve the same results. That is the beauty of owning your own business, you make the decisions, good or bad.

I still do not understand one comment though, I can't remember it exactly, along the lines of paint not peeling unless the paint underneath it does. WTF does that mean? Obviously, if the paint underneath peels off, it was your responsibility to remove it prior to painting over it?

Anyhow, Mr. Mike, you are unique, I will give you that. I do not agree with your tactics, but I do agree that you need a wheel barrel to carry your balls if you really talk & sell your customers in this manner.

George Z · 05-24-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsremodeling

2 or 3 of the slick talking salsmen?

No, just one of those and he may be too slick for my liking.
He promised a customer the world by 30 hours over budget!

I meant 1-3 full time jobs!

Mr. Mike · 05-24-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

I still do not understand one comment though, I can't remember it exactly, along the lines of paint not peeling unless the paint underneath it does. WTF does that mean? Obviously, if the paint underneath peels off, it was your responsibility to remove it prior to painting over it?

Our products are only as good as the surface we put them over, in re-painting there is a ton of things that can happen and if we all fixed them for free we would not be painters.

Quote:

Obviously, if the paint underneath peels off, it was your responsibility to remove it prior to painting over it

No no no, That is wrong I think. We need an expert on this maybe but the way I see it is the consumer has two options 1. to strip and paint 2. minor prep and paint over existing finishes.

Mr. Mike · 05-24-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

No, just one of those and he may be too slick for my liking.
He promised a customer the world by 30 hours over budget!

I meant 1-3 full time jobs!

My idea of a good slick salesperson would be to bring in jobs that get done 30 hours under budget, sometimes salespeople will sign jobs just to get a check from the company they work for.

DavidNTX · 05-24-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Mike

Our products are only as good as the surface we put them over, in re-painting there is a ton of things that can happen and if we all fixed them for free we would not be painters.

No no no, That is wrong I think. We need an expert on this maybe but the way I see it is the consumer has two options 1. to strip and paint 2. minor prep and paint over existing finishes.

Noone said fix them for free. Part of a professional paintjob is to get the surface ready to accept new paint and that does include scraping all loose and peeling paint from the substrate. That is industry standard. Ask your paint rep. Listen to the professional painters here telling you what is right. Painting is the easy part. Preparing the surface is the work.

Stripping might be one option, another is to PROPERLY prepare the surface. The other option of painting over loose paint to peel off is not an acceptable practice for a professional nor would it be an option. Even if it is part of your plan to go back and fix it later. Again, ask your paint rep for the proper way to prepare a house for repaint. Ask what it will take for him to guarantee his product. If you ever call a paint rep out to look at a failing job the first thing he will do is look at the back of a peeled off chip of paint. If there is old paint on the back his warranty will not cover it. Look at the thread here when someone ask why paint is peeling. The first thing the professionals here will say is to look at the back of the chips of paint. If there is dust or a chalky residue then there wasn't proper preparation. If there is old paint on the back again, it is the painters fault.

It seems you are about the only one in this industry that feels it is a professional thing to do to paint over loose and peeling paint. That is not an acceptable practice for a professional.

You say we need an expert on this. There are many experts here that have told you the correct way to do things. The mere fact of you saying we need an expert on this is enough for us to realize that an expert, you are not.

I have one question. You have gone on and on and on about your sales abilities but what I am wondering is where did you learn to paint?

rbsremodeling · 05-24-2009, 04:54 PM

By numbers?

chris n · 05-25-2009, 04:08 AM

You say we need an expert on this. There are many experts here that have told you the correct way to do things. The mere fact of you saying we need an expert on this is enough for us to realize that an expert, you are not.

I have one question. You have gone on and on and on about your sales abilities but what I am wondering is where did you learn to paint?

Mr. Mike · 05-25-2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

It seems you are about the only one in this industry that feels it is a professional thing to do to paint over loose and peeling paint. That is not an acceptable practice for a professional.

No you are misunderstanding something here, I scrape and remove all loose popping and peeling paint. I don't just paint over it. As for time going by some of that old stuck paint will break free just like the other that you scraped off.

Thing here is I probably talk to my reps more than most, I hired a rep that was my sales rep from porter he was my rep there for 10 years before I hired him to come sale paint jobs for me.

rbsremodeling · 05-25-2009, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Mike

No you are misunderstanding something here, I scrape and remove all loose popping and peeling paint. I don't just paint over it. As for time going by some of that old stuck paint will break free just like the other that you scraped off.

Thing here is I probably talk to my reps more than most, I hired a rep that was my sales rep from porter he was my rep there for 10 years before I hired him to come sale paint jobs for me.

Why do you say sale and not sell. I have noticed this a few times. Some one else does it too.

Mr. Mike · 05-25-2009, 06:46 AM

Quote:

If there is old paint on the back again, it is the painters fault.

Right you would go busted in no time owning a painting company if that was true. Am I the only one that knows that is not true really?

Mr. Mike · 05-25-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Why do you say sale and not sell. I have noticed this a few times. Some one else does it too.

Thanks for asking and I have no idea if I am spelling it properly every time I use it so I switch it up from time to time, lol

Quote:

I have one question. You have gone on and on and on about your sales abilities but what I am wondering is where did you learn to paint?

I am the only one right about this paint popping situation, you have not seen my portfolio?

chris n · 05-26-2009, 03:35 AM

[

It seems you are about the only one in this industry that feels it is a professional thing to do to paint over loose and peeling paint. That is not an acceptable practice for a professional.

You say we need an expert on this. There are many experts here that have told you the correct way to do things. The mere fact of you saying we need an expert on this is enough for us to realize that an expert, you are not.

I have one question. You have gone on and on and on about your sales abilities but what I am wondering is where did you learn to paint?[/quote]

Notice how this last question is skillfully avoided??

Mr. Mike · 05-26-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

I have one question. You have gone on and on and on about your sales abilities but what I am wondering is where did you learn to paint?

Quote:

Notice how this last question is skillfully avoided??

This was my answer below,

Quote:

I am the only one right about this paint popping situation, you have not seen my portfolio?

Any who since I am the only one that knows on here thus far that paint popping is not the painters fault if the old paint is on the back side, your alls skills should be in question.

DavidNTX · 05-26-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris n

[
Notice how this last question is skillfully avoided??

Yes I do, similar to how he avoided the engineering question.

I guess he has it buried somewhere on his website. I really have no desire to go waffling through it all to try and figure it out. If it was worth anything he would have had no problem laying it out here in the open. The fact that he dodged the question and now hopes everyone has forgotten kinda says it all anyway. Any "expert" that is here already knows.

Mr. Mike · 05-26-2009, 11:17 AM

You guys think you are at the top of the expert level, You are not, when I said expert I was meaning someone over us all like the paint rep at a paint store. I Painted for at least 7 companies before starting this company when I was 20 years old. The last one I worked for was Tharp Painting, I worked there for 2 years and they had about 50 employees when I left to start my first painting project on my own. Since then I have been all around the world traveling.

My sales rep from 11 years who worked for Porter 24 years, came here to work for a year and made over 70k working for me. Do the math guy's if I did not do great work I don't think he would work for me.