BrianFox

2000 customers?

Mr. Mike

Yep

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chris n

AURA® Waterborne Exterior Paint Flat Finish 629

Extreme hide, never more than 2 coats in any color
Color Lock® Technology
Low temperature application and greatly improved resistance to surfactant leaching in dark colors
Superior adhesion and excellent resistance to chalking
Delivers a high-build paint film for excellent durability and long lasting protection
Easy to apply with brush, roller or spray
Soap and water clean up
Fast dry and re-coat times
Resistant to fading, cracking, peeling, blistering, dirt pick-up
Provides a mildew resistant film
Self priming in most situations


lol, that's Aura for you Chris, says that right on the can.

Nowhere do I see the word NEVER used in reference to peel pop or fade

also self priming in MOST situations

Mike(VA)

Mr. Mike, you said:

I did tell them it would take no more than 3 working days, now they did not know if I meant 1 worker or 3 workers, I had 6 workers on it for 7 hours.

Part of your problem is your delivery. You unintentionally misled your customer by telling them it would take about 3 working days. Your concept of 'working days' is not the same as your customer's. As it is,you spent about 42 manhours there and customers don't think in terms of manhours. They think in terms of what you tell them.

Most customers put an undefinable expectation to the price they are paying. Something inside all of us says 'that's seems a bit high for what I am paying' or 'that seems about right for what I am paying' even if we have no clue as to what the right cost is. When you gave your estimate to the customer, she equated price with 3 days work no matter how many people you would have on site. That was, in her mind, a reasonable return for her investment. When she found out that it only took less than one day, that return was no longer reasonable.

You also said:

At the very least I will discover something to send my guys back for about 2 hours, maybe just 1 or 2 guys.

What you will discover is that she will want reasonable return for her investment. Couch it in an term you want, but that is what the real issue is. Do more than she expects and she may yet be a good referal. However, you may want to look at your sales process and review it from the customer's perspective. You have already found one area that needs adjustments.

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Mr. Mike

O'k I went out there and every frame was showing streaks in the paint and the paint did not fill in all the tiny cracks and holes. I blame that on the painters acting like they are using a 2 mil paint and not an 10 mil paint.


The glazing and the sashes look awesome and could not find one thing wrong with them. 13 frames to apply one more coat on.

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rbsremodeling

I still think it was a bad idea for her not to be there like the others have stated. She might have a problem with something else and not even what you pointed out.

I would have let her show me the problem(s) and take it from there. You might be on a different wave length from her. Now after she pointed out the problem, the additional coat would have been the right thing to do while you were out there.

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Being an idiot frees a man from having to live up to others peoples expectations.

Dave Mac

Mike You wont set a estimate up unless the people are their for you to give it to them in person, and go over it with them!!!!! This is no differnt and boggles my mind, your so worried about selling and trying to close on one call, yet a call back you dont want to meet with the person and have her point out the problem, what if you send your guys out tomorow do the frames, and she calls after your guys finish, says I just got the email it was a couple of minor things, but it wasnt the frames. You have to go back. I might be reading into this to much, but it seems you treat your estimates very important not wanting to miss any detail,thus you have t present the estimate in person to a person. Seems like you should treat your call backs the same way imo

ModernStyle

Maybe your are in such a hurry to make the sell Mike that you are missing things that should be brought to your potential customers attention. Some people use this method as a sales tactic so they can add all the missed items as extras later, I am not accusing you of this but I think it puts customers more at ease when you point out things to them that they may have overlooked. I don't get many call backs, but when I do I am sure to go the extra mile because I feel stupid for being there to begin with, I should have missed nothing.
Do you go to the job with your employees to go over everything at the start of a project ? Or do you just give then an address and some paint and tell them to hurry back ? I am down to being a one man show right now, but when I did have a couple of guys working for me I always made it a point to be there at the beginning and end of each job, with a few visit in the middle thrown in on larger jobs. Now maybe you are a bigger company and you personally cannot make it to all the job sites, but if your foreman cant be trusted to go over everything on his own then maybe you need someone to do it for him.
I would have definitely wanted the HO to be there on a call back, I would have wanted the opportunity to fix whatever was wrong and to walk through the project with her just to make sure everything was now satisfactory.
I am not trying to say anything about you or how you do business Mike, I am just saying what I would do in a similar situation.

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DavidNTX

Of course it is the painters fault and it appears they are only following directions. The only time paint should be used for surfaces with cracks is if it is elastomeric coating on concrete with hairline surface cracks. It is never a good idea to try and fill things in with paint, especially if it is wood. I even question using a 10 mil paint and if the paint you are using is actually a 10 mil paint.

I am old school but some things never change.

First let's look at just what is going on with a painjob, particularly a repaint.

Once upon a time when that house was first built, if painted properly would have a coat of primer and at least 2 coats of paint.

When a house gets to be let's say 20-30 years old it is very possible that there are places that will have 10 coats of paint, all being held onto the wood by the original coat of primer. If the house is repainted every 5 years with a primer and 2 coats, at 30 years there would be 18 coats of paint.


These primers were never meant to hold that much weight and that is one major cause of severe peeling, paint buildup. When the loose and peeling paint have been scraped thoroughly and ALL loose and peeling paint removed, then it has to be sanded thoroughly. That is what gets rid of the cracks. not being filled in with paint only making the paint buildup problem even worse. This is one reason I question using a 10 mil paint on a house.

If an existing paint job is prepared properly only the raw wood that was exposed during scraping and sanding should be spot primed. Only if there is a 40% failure should you reprime the entire surface (according to most specs). My preference is to use an alkyd primer that will dry slowly so it can soak into the wood better. This will help the next time there is 10 coats of paint (or 2 coats of 10 mil paint) piled onto the top of it.

Once everything is scraped, sanded and primed a finish coat applied. If you can get by with 1 finish coat then that is better for you AND the homeowner and when you take the time to tell this to a homeowner it sounds like you understand what is needed and want to give them the best possible job.

An airless will coverup a lot of crap for awhile, especially if using a high build paint. If anyone ever tried doing that to my house...

It wouldn't happen.

Paint can be piled on with a brush too and if you are attempting to fill holes and cracks using paint then that is no better than piling it on with an airless.

Applying the paint is the easy part. Preparing the surface to accept the paint is where the work is. In my 35 years of involvement in the paint industry I have found no substitute for a good and thorough sanding of an existing exterior paintjob. There is just no way around it and do it right.

Regardless if you did things right or wrong and I do have an opinion, it sure doesn't sound prefessional.

Do things the right way from the start and these projects won't come back to bite you.

4thGeneration

Not a crack on Mike, but up is 1 coat and down is 2 coats in Florida

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Hi Mike. I think it's the fact that the project took only a day versus 3 days that upsets your customer. I believe that she can only be convinced that you did a good job by explaining her why it took 1 day and not 3 days to complete the project. Once she understands what happened and why then I don't think you would have to go back to her house to "fix" things to make her happy. That should save everybody time and money. Good luck !

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Mr. Mike

The paint was all wet when we did a walk through with one of the homeowners and looked fine, as it dried streaks showed through. I will fix this on wed. She wrote me back and said thanks, when I am done I will do a personal walk through.

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chris n

[quote=Mr. Mike;681312] Would it be O’k instead of setting up a time if we just plan on coming by on tomorrow or Wed.







Proper use of the English language (grammar and punctuation) would probably help you in trying to be a respectable contractor.

Dorman Painting

You make some interesting points, especially about the fact that a twenty year old house will probably have ten coats of paint on it by that time.

The main problem with your basic theory of sanding the exterior down, is that we all know MOST customers simply won't pay for that process. Sanding an exterior down with say thirty percent body peel is a MAJOR project that would more than likely sky rocket the job cost another 30 percent or more.

I agree, it might be the proper and best prep technique, but guys will only do this if they are getting paid to do so. Very few customers I have encountered in the last ten years were willing to pay me to sand down the whole house.

DavidNTX

I believe what I said was a 20-30 year old house and 10 coats is not out of the realm of possibillities, especially if every time it is painted gets a coat of primer and 2 coats of paint. If the paint is thick enough to have surface cracks there are at least that many coats of paint on this house. A paint buildup problem is one of the leading causes of coating failure on older homes. Cracked glazing and the fact this house even uses glazing is another indicator that this is an older house.

I would never place a guarantee that it will NEVER peel, pop or fade if the job isn't prepared right. The paint companies guarantees are only if the surface is prepared correctly.

All I am saying is this, don't blame the customer if the paintjob fails. We don't know the particulars about how the job was bid or if enough money to do the job correctly was charged or not.

If you knowingly give a customer a bad job because they didn't pay enough then why complain about the customer causing the bad job. Tell the customer up front that it will not be prepared correctly and see what happens.

Did you know there are some people that refuse to do a job unless they are able to do it correctly?

They are called professionals.

It would be real interesting if this contractor told the homeowner that she wasn't paying enough for a quality paintjob therefore would get a second rate paintjob. I somehow have a feeling if he had said that this problem wouldn't be occurring now.

What we know is that he offered to do the job for a certain amount, the owner agreed and now is unhappy with the work. The contractor went back to the job and saw for himself that it was below par, even for him. In fact is having to repaint 18 frames and fill in some cracks and holes with paint.

This is not the customers fault and you can't blame the customer for your own shortcomings. The contractor never said a single word about not getting the money to do the job correctly but did say plenty to help us understand that the job was not performed correctly.

I bet you won't find another handfull of painters on this site that will endorse knowingly giving a customer a bad paintjob. I'm surprised there are 2 of you that are at least willing to admit it.

It would be real interesting to hear what others say about knowingly giving a customer a bad job. Anyone who does this should expect complaints like this guy got.

Mr. Mike

I appreciate your replies, however you just crossed that line - look down.

Look you are way off track, We are not giving bad paint jobs and you are trying to use your words to accuse us of giving bad work.


Your nuts, Professional is my middle name. My jobs are done right, this one needed one more coat.



lol, you , you, you. You need to read between the lines. I guarantee that my paint will never pop peel or fade you cant because you don't know better.

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DavidNTX

I could guarantee anything too but I don't because I DO know better.

Mr. Mike

All jokes aside, I think you are saying that the way you state these jobs need to be done are the only right way of doing these jobs. I disagree 100%.



Any of my paint that pops off will be connected to the old paint that failed, my paint will not just pop off by its self.

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Mr. Mike

Here is a warranty you would for sure be scared of, I had another forum loose their heads when I told them about the warranty I give away.

Linky to my warranty page


Since the real test is time...

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DavidNTX

When I bid a repaint my scope of work always includes this line.

Scrape and sand all loose and peeling paint in order to make surface preferable to receive fresh paint.

Of course your paint isn't going to pop off of existing paint but part of a painter's job is to make that surafe ready for new paint. Leaving loose and peeling paint is not professional.

A guarantee is that the paint will not release from the substrate. That is the guarantee of the material suppliers. If you ever do any work for an architect that will also be the requirement of a guarantee. That is an industry standard guarantee. People pay to have their house painted, not to have the last coat of paint painted. Anytime you have to "read between the lines" of a guarantee there is a good reason for it. With your guarantee if paint falls from the house in the first week, as long as it has some old loose and peeling paint on the back of your paint, your guarantee will not fix the work.

You might also look at who I was replying to when I made the crack about professional and I will still stand behind that. If you knowingly do a bad job for any reason it will call into question your professionalism. I even stated that you never did claim not to get enough money to do the job correctly. That whole comment meant this.

If you are willing to paint over anything without the proper preparation then your professionaalism would be called into question. I would never paint over mold or mildew and I would never paint over loose and peeling paint.

I would never use paint to fill in cracks and holes and I would never use 10 mil paint on a repaint of a house, especially a house with a paint buildup problem and if I did scrape and sand a surface down to where some raw wood was showing, it would be properly primed, allowed to dry and then painted.

But hey, that's just me.

Here is a quote from the Painting and Decorating Contractors of America (PDCA) http://pdca.org

Preparation & Painting
Getting the surface properly prepared makes all the difference. Professional contractors know the value of preparation and will do it right.

That quote came from this page
http://www.pdca.org/consumers/hiringcontractors.htm

I find it best for both parties to know what they are getting up front. A need to read between the lines is never good for anyone except lawyers.