Jerdog44

I recently proposed an estimate to a client on a pretty high end, head to toe paint job. It's a repaint of a previously poorly painted home that is only 3 years old. I crunched numbers for a good week or so, and the price kept coming back no matter how I looked at it. The client was really taken back at the price, and said "I just don't understand why painting is so expensive". We've all heard this before. A contractor has done all the middle man work so far. I'm meeting with the client for the first time next week, and feel I need to "sell" myself to him. He's already talking about taking other estimates after seeing mine. Can you guys look over my bid and tell me if I am out of line here.

Here's some details: (app.6000 sq/ft. floor plan)

10000 sq/ft walls 2 coats @.70 sq/ft=$7000
4500 sq/ft ceilings 1 coat @.35 sq/ft=1575
70 windows +openings 2 coats @ $25/ct =$3500
60 doors+ openings 2 coats @ $25/ct=$3000
baseboard app. $1500
add. wainscot, benches, handrails, stair trim, etc $2500
10% moving, covering furniture; drywall repair; trim repair; etc $2000
10% contractor(who is helping me get job) finders fee $2250

Total cost of Estimate= $24500

I've estimated with using high dollar paint-$45/gallon @ 110 gallons=$4950
and about $500 or so in sundry items. I have only the intention of taking my time and doing the best job to give him a top of the line final product. Should I offer cheaper alternatives to him? ie: cheaper paint, less coats if color stays, less detailed methods, etc. Should I itemize my bid? Lower the price? Need help here. We need this job in this current economy to get through a slow winter, and make this the start of a great year. Any advice is appreciated.

Royal-T

Itemize because your prices looked good to me.

profinish

My opinion anytime you second guess yourself you lose give your bid and follow up in a couple of days if you dont get it move on to something else you know what you need to make..
Another thing I do im not sure about anyone else but I give a deadline this proposal may be withdrawn by us if not acepted within 3 days..5 days depends on how I feel I have had people jack around for a week or two then call I tell them I have to revise the estimate then I add a couple hundred bucks for the trouble..

Good Luck!
Kenny

neolitic

Itemize the scope of work.
Don't break down your price
item by item....
unless you want to enter into
an endless negotiation, with
HO picking you apart like
crows on road kill.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

profinish

Tell him what you are going to do then give a total price.
And if your are sweatin it already make sure you are specific on what you are going to do..

Mandrake

Didn't have time to crunch the numbers but it sounds about right.

One question: Does the client know they are being assessed a 2k finder's fee? Most customers would have a bit of trouble with that.

mandrake

__________________
Pretty Good Solutions, LLC
www.prettygoodweb.com

Sir Mixalot

I agree. Maybe you could go head and absorb a $1000 dollars or more(dependining on how bad you want/need that job) of that finders fee.

MIbeachbuilder

Your prices look good to me but i agree with the above....do not itemize...we dont itemize, we phase because we have had clients give our bids to other contractors to see if they could give a lower price...(they couldnt but we dont want anyone else to know what WE are charging). also, there is the issue with subs (that is posted on another thread)...

We had a client who kept adding change order after change order and when presented him with the final bill he grabbed his chest and looked at his wife, like we didnt tell him how much more it would be at the end. he signed every single one of the change orders and we kept a runny tally so it was NO surprise....

The guy already had one stroke so hubby reduced the price right then and there by thousands of dollars! there was very little profit on that onem (that was one of the first he did under the company) Come to find out the guy had also done that with the electrician, the plumber and the HVAC guys as well....

Maybe your guy cheaped out the last time and that is why he has a crappy paint job now.....make sure you highlight a warranty....

A W Smith

don't forget to sell the quality level of the materials you are using as well. If he gets other estimates they may substitute inferior products. I don't know how long you have been in business but if it is a real long time sell that aspect of it also. And that you intend to be around for more decades to come and that you back up your quality as you have in the past. Also provide references if need be.

__________________
Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

Jerdog44

I didn't itemize the bid for the homeowner. Just posted here to see if I was in line with the costs I used. Also, I didn't list anything in regard to the contractor upcharge. I like to think that is between myself and the builder. I'd eat a grand or so of that cost if needed, but I still feel 1K out of 24K isn't going to make his day. But you never know. He did build a $million+ home to begin with. I guess I just need to hold my head up and explain the to him the immense amount of labor involved here.

jcalvin

He probably nit picks everything. If you give in now, he will hit you with it again when you hand him the bill. Stand behind the original bill. I explain to my customers that the reason my bills are higher than others is that I spend a lot of time making sure that I take everything into consideration. I tend to miss things from time to time but my customers will tell you that there are rarely never hidden charges and missed items. Around here, some contractors will underbir to win the job and once they get the ho on the hook they will start the that will be extra, I didn't figure for this, and the material has gone up so high game. By the time they are through adding all the extras, they end up with the same in the project as I bid the first time.

__________________
Cal


You hired WHO

Double-A

Did you ask him how much he was expecting to pay?

Did you ask him if you were wrong to expect that a top quality job was expected if not demanded by way of the poor job done the first time around and the beauty of the home.

Some folks think in terms of dollars and cents. They don't get their heads around what that money is buying, aside from 'a paint job'.

Sometimes it helps to remind folks that this home is a reflection of its owners, and that the poor quality job is rather noticeable by anyone that looks at it for more than a glance. The existing paint is a problem, and you're the solution. So now what's the problem?

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

Sir Mixalot

Tell him:
"The bitternes of poor job, last's longer then, the sweetness of a cheap price."

MakDeco

Sounds like your in a tough spot, Your number doesn't look bad too me.

__________________
MAK Deco

THINKPAINTING

You would beat me hands down...............$25.00 a coat ? both sides of a door and frame?

Even doing 1 side of a door and frame, is it smooth door or rasied panel?

We get at least $50 dollars for one side of door and frame for repaint, minor prep.

Your proposal sounds good to me, good luck...........

PlainPainter

When potential customers start with the "I don't understand....." I just have no patience. Bottom line, it is what it is - if they don't understand, then maybe they shouldn't have bought a home that could house 7 families of more moderate income levels. I personally think with people like that - you have to come across as tough. Has a homeowner ever held an 18" roller filled with paint at the end of a 12' pole trying to roll vaulted ceilings? Which by the way is a common feature in McMansions.

THINKPAINTING

Not trying to pick ya apart on your estimating but 10% on top of your bid for moving funiture and drywall repair is way to low as well.

When you paint a room first you have to move furniture , then drop off and cover all items not being painted, setup your paint colors and do your patching , sanding spot priming etc. Once you are done , now you have to uncover, put furniture back and clean up.........etc....

If your charging $500 to paint the room, $50 bucks is a little low to me for all the other work involved besisdes painting, no matter if its one room or 10......rooms.

eastend

this may be for another thread, but isn't 10% pretty high for a "finders fee"?
I always thought finders fee's were more like 2%.
Do you expect to make 10% clear profit on this project?( after expenses and salary?)Why should the guy that tells you about the job make that and not do anything else for it?
And like was posted earlier, do you really want to tell your customer you're "kicking back" over 2K of his money to your contact?

A.T.H.I.

It seams to me your price is really low. This guy lives in a million $ house and he doesn't like your price?

I learned something a long time ago, you charge what you need to cover your expenses and make a profit or the work you do will end up costing you money. Don't worry what the homeowner thinks. How much does he make working to buy such a huge house?

Never and I repeat never lower your price if you do then you look like a hack and will be treated as such by the home owner. Once you drop the price they will be bugging you everyday to lower it just a little more.

That's not the worse part, once your done they will tell everyone that so and so will lower their prices so don't pay them what they want. Once you have that reputation their is no chance of you making a decent living.

Stay firm with your price and focus on the value that you are adding to his home. Stay professional and demand respect and you will get respect. If he doesn't hire you then he will get what he deserves a cheap half assed job that will be an eyesore and lower the value of his investment (house). You would think that after having the last paint job only 3 years ago that he would have learned a valuable lesson.

BCPNJ

I wanted to reply to this post a few days ago, but could'nt post. So now I guess I'll ask for an update? Thanks.