steve-in-kville

I did an estimate for another landlord in our town. Has several places, been in the business a long time. Guy wants to kick back and do less maintenance on his places so he can concentrate on retirement. I really want to pick up this account since there'll be a lot of future work from him, plus whatever referrals may come out of it.

So I tell the guy I would like to stick with SW paint since I get a good discount and their stuff is top quality, etc. I tell him if he sticks to a common white color that I keep around for my own buildings, he's looking at a good paint for a good price. (assuming some of the apartments he has will take less than a 5'er of paint... I can use from my stock)

The guy tells me he's been buying 5'ers of whatever is cheap at Lowes/HD/etc. Always worked well for him. Oh, and he sees that HD advertises a certain brand paint (four letter cuss word that begins with the letter "B") and it they say its the best paint out there... better than SW!!

(by now I'm getting sick in the gut... looking for a safe place to vomit, if need be)

So I told him I'd consider using another brand, but I won't use the "B" word, and additional costs may be incurred.

Whats the general policy for using customer supplied paint?

steve

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mdshunk

It's a rental. Don't get too wound up. It's not The White House or the Taj Mahal. It will be all F'd up at the end of the tannancy anyhow.

Richard

Steve!

I could get all winded here, but I'll keep it short. Ok, I will display my thoughts on 'Home Depository' paints=

Check it out...HD's "top"(lol) paint is around $25.00 per gallon~~~watch this.......keep reading....................

So is Sherwin's Promar! Convince the man to let you spend the SAME EXACT amount on better quality paint. It's that easy, it's that simple~same price, better product.....signed, sealed, delivered....blah blah blah.....

see ya steve...

Richard

I'd like to add, I can understand the above, but have to disagree with the theory. Using good quality paint means less hassle with coverage, paint spatter on the floor, baseboard, arms, etc. Using good quality paint is essential to being productive as a painter. It has nothing to do with who will occupy the buildings or how they will treat the walls and windows, it has to do with how it will hold up to the way they treat it....

EDIT: stick to your guns and tell customers you are the painter-and you know good paint. Tell them you want them to get the best bang for the buck....this way you are actually showing them you care about the finished result, while still spending the SAME amount of money. Displaying confidence, with moderate flexibility is NOT ARROGANT, in any way. It is being very business like, and I'm insulted that someone might call this act arrogant. I call it~considerate.

mdshunk

Speaking from a pure business perspective, and not from a paint perspective...

Not tailoring your materials and methods to the type of occupancy and its intended use is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. You will lose a lot of work that you could have done and still made a profit. Not everyone wants or needs a first class job. Take arrogance out of the equation and put the business back in.

It is for the reasons above, that when I'm running slight on work, I'll do my estimates with a "good, better, and best" options.

steve-in-kville

Its not a question of arrogance... its a question of sanity of mind knowing the paint will hold up... as well as apply easily and efficiently.

I see your point... but why should I use a poor paint that I have to fight the entire way, thus costing me time/frustration which results in lost profit?

MD, you have a good point, though. Maybe I should do these jobs as straight T&M. If it takes longer and more paint, it falls on the customer's bill, not my overhead.

steve

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steve-in-kville

Excellent point.

steve

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AFI

Let me ask you. Do you prefer to work with Aluminum wire or Copper wire for the service of the house? OR do you prefer to install that old round fuse breaker box or install breaker box? OR do you prefer to work with a cord drill or a cordless drill?

You see! Is NOT ARROGANTCY for us profecional painters we prefer to work with reliable products to make or work right less time consuming and peace of mind.

Of course if a HO want me to use that stuff (%^#&* *&^//) there are no warranty on my job and will be extra cost.


ART

steve-in-kville

Another good point... I can see both sides to this, but I get to play Sparky a lot, too. Keep the replies coming.

steve

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slickshift

Labor only customer supplies the materials, the price goes up, warranty goes out the window
There's a few reasons for that though
()earned the hard way)

First off, they never, ever, remember the sundries (or have any idea of the expense), so you have to figure you're going to the store or your stock for those anyway
Then usually they don't get nearly enough product, another trip for you

Then, it's not usually that they want to be helpful, it's that they want to be cheap, that's why they want this arrangement
They generally are going to buy some real cheap crap that will make your job harder

Even if it's 1/2 decent, if you are not familiar with it, there's a learning curve
You can't work it and push it like you are used to
It will make your job harder

The labor part of any bid that the customer supplies the paint for gets an additional 50% (over the me supplied product)
And that if I trust them/the product
It's almost always more that way for them than if I supply the good stuff

If it's cheap crap/Behr, I'll avoid it like the plague
But if pressed, labor in the bid is 3x my normal rate

As for the warranty, I think that's pretty much a no-brainer not to warranty something you are not familiar with, or that you are-but know it sucks

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

steve-in-kville

Are you refering to roller covers, tape and such? I think that's even worse than letting them buy the paint... buy the wrong roller cover and now you get to fight that... HO's don't understand that not all brushes/roller covers are created equal. They buy the cheapest (and we all know the results of that mentality).

Maybe I mis-read your post.

steve

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paint slinger

Maybe using B*** paint is a smart move guaranteed to need repainted after every tenant leaves....call it job security.

AFI

Oh yea I like when HO use B*** paint. More job for us.

slickshift

No, I think you got it right
I didn't get into that
The poll was about paint, I didn't want to wander

Yes, I think cheap sundries are just as bad at eating away at my production rates and job quality

My point was, most of the time they don't even remember them
And yes, of course, when they do, they don't pick up some $5 sleeves lol
It's the "Val-U Pak"

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

steve-in-kville

I figure an average residency lasts about 18 months (apartments) to maybe 3 years (single family homes).

I had places where washability was a plus. But most times the place just needed a good repaint, no matter if B*** paint was used or the top-end SW was applied. If a tenant is careless, no paint is bullet-proof.

IMHO, using good paint in rentals result in easy application, easy wash-up and easy touch up. Unfortunately, the last two never see reality after some people are done living in a place.

steve

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Teetorbilt

I liked slicks first paragraph. Pretty much covers it.

I have a friend that retired early doing cheap, crap work on rental units. Talk about doing everything wrong? He didn't even have a clue when he started, he was a knock-a-bout cruising sailor with a minor league drug business. He made over $1M in short time spraying rental apts. with watered down paint.

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Joewho

C,mon guys. B*** is not that bad. Deep colors might pose a problem, but for an apartment? I agree with the post that says you need to be flexible. I've never had a problem applying that paint. And quite often the homeowner wants to use it. I've dropped off the S/W chip book just to come back and find that they've gone to HD and gotten the color in B***.

Of course, no warranty, and the price should go up, not to punish the customer, but because they buy cheap tape and never enough tape or paint.

I would especially make an exception for this situation because that's what the owner uses. If all the units are that paint in one color, it should be that paint then. Service, service, service. The only way I wouldn't do it, is if the owner gets the cheapest watered down junk requiring extra coats on my part.

Actually, the poll should have included "depends what paint it is". For me, B*** is acceptable.

paintr56

I have a lot of respect for your electrical knowledge and do agree that some thought can go in to the use of the property when making a selection, but the truth is a lot of lesser paints make it harder to get exceptable results. Do you allow the customer to pick the products you use if you feel they are a bad choice? You resently taught me why my use of zip wire was a mistake. Would you let the customer dictate its use if every thing remained the same but there was no code to fall back on or would you say no because you knew it was the wrong wire?

Jim Bunton

slickshift

Yeah it is
It's complete crap

True Story:

My sister bought her first house
Needs help fixing it up to move in
Tells me she bought some Behr at the HD 2 minutes from her new home
I told her to take it back
She says no, I bought it, I don't wanna take it back
Fine, says I, if you won't take it back, dump it down the sink
But it was XXX$$$!
Don't care, dump it, consider it a lesson. Buy some BM or SWP

....later that week I get the call she's ready, I've got to repair and paint a room
On the way over, I tell my beloved "Man, if she wants me to use Behr on that room, I really, really, hope she has some neighbors dog crap in the yard that I can eat to prove my love for her, because I am not using Behr"

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

AAPaint

Anyone with half an iota of intelligence would let the professional use products he is farmiliar with, and confident of, if they cost the same as what the customer wants to provide. They would be silly not too...

That statement could be said for any trade on this board.

With that said. B*** is garbage. There's a reason why so many seasoned pros can't stand the stuff....actually, there are tons of reasons. Not only that, but using it means buying paint from a direct competitor. Doesn't make any sense to me.

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-AAPaint

AA Quality Painting & Pressure Washing LLC
Jacksonville Painters
Jacksonville, FL.