Cracking Paint On Linen Over Plaster

MrPersnickety

Alright, that title either made sense to you or it didn't. If it made sense, you've encountered it. If it sounded like gibberish then read on because it's a good thing to know about.
One of my first jobs as a painting contractor was on a 1930's mediteranean on Stanyan near Anza in San Francisco. The walls were covered in a very fine web of cracks. We're talking cracks that connect into a circle every half-inch. Kind of like a crackle finish.
As it turns out, in the 30's one way of getting a very smooth, fine finish (think "level 5" of the time) was to cover the plaster in linen, then paint. The problem seems to come up 60 or 70 years later when the surface has expanded and contracted itself into a tizzy and the crackle finish appears. Obviously I don't know what causes it or I wouldn't use words like "tizzy".
What I'm looking for is a solution to the problem. On the other job, we removed all of the linen and its years of paint and went back to the plaster. It was crack city, with big diagonal cracks running across the walls and ceilings. We patched and taped and skim coated and got a good finish out of it, but it was a lot of work and very expensive. Don't get me wrong, "a lot of work and expensive" are integral parts of my business plan, but the homeowners are not so thrilled and rather than loose the job, I would like to see if there are other solutions.
Bring it on! This is my first post to Contractor Talk, so show me what you know. I'll try to make my next post shorter.
Thanks,
Jared

Woz the Painter

One way to do it would be cut out and remove the linen in the effected area, patch and or tape only the large, deep holes and cracks, then rehang linen to the area and prime and paint.

pstorey

Hire CertaPro...http://www.contractortalk.com/images...s/laughing.gif

Only Kidding. Welcome to the boards.

Exroadog

I would skim it and re-apply linen or canvas. That is still considered a great fix and since that was the original (which use to be common practice to use linen) it would be the right thing to do for restoration reasons.

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Brushslingers

Haha.. ya, old english method... I went over once and removed "wallpaper" from a wall to find hay behind it.... doh. EASIEST thing to do is a wallboard trick, remove the linen, seal the thing with gardz or comparible, and roll on sheetrock mud, really depends on how much they wanna spend... but i've found that to be a cheap and fairly durable "fix". Welcome to the boards.

EDIT - Oh, btw... the linen method you are describing pre-dates the 30's... I woulda guessed Boston and 1880 if you didn't stick San Fran in your sig, so it was prolly an older artisan and it's been remodeled a few times, Cali was taken from Mexico in what... 1810 or something?

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Benn

MrPersnickety

Actually instead of linen I would use the sheets of mesh ( just like the mesh joint tape only 3' wide) which self-adhere, and then mud over it, just wonder if the client wants to pay for it.

MrPersnickety

Benn,
Strangely, here in San Francisco, the older houses didn't use the linen. The only ones I have encountered are from the 30's. Takes a while for technology to move west, ya know.
As for the fix, I would bet a very large sum that the cracks in the plaster are going to be large and plentiful and simple skim coating isn't going to do a thing for that. I use plaster washers and joint tape to reattach the plaster to the lathe.
Jared

ProWallGuy

Flexi-wall

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Brushslingers

Very true... didn't mean skim however... was referring to "roll it on" as in the ... well the method you descibed in your above post, putting the mesh up and rolling the substrate over it. Pretty sure that the earlier homes in your area are mostly hard plaster eh?

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Benn

MrPersnickety

Benn,
yes, hard plaster with lots of cracks from seismic activity. I sometimes wish it were all replaced with drywall.
Jared

chris n

As Tim already posted ,Flexi-wall, is the answer.

MrPersnickety

Alright Chris and Tim, I want to know what is up with this Flexi-Wall. You guys are as cryptic about it as it's own web site is - there is very little info on that site.
I take it you've both used it. Any problems with seams? Would you stick it on a ceiling?. I'll contact the manufacturer and talk to them and check their info with your real world info.
Thanks,
Jared

gideond

A good elastomeric paint might not be a bad idea either. Many can bridge gaps up to an eight inch and have triple the flexibility of other coatings. They are a bit rubbery in comparison though.

Tmrrptr

MrP,

I did interior work in a historic register home locally.
Client very knowledgeable.

Hairline cracking is something you learn to love w old timey plastered walls. Horsehair, lime and sand from the riverbed!

Yes, the linen smooves it out.

I made my repairs of the big cacks w fast set & mesh tape.

used SW prep rite primer.

then I thinned some elastomeric w int flat.

Came out fine.

Maybe I could go back and visit... It's been 3yrs now.
I'd like to know mysef !

If your client can't hang w the hairline cracks, they probably bought the wrong structure.

If they won't step up to the plate and enjoy what they have, quote them to glue and screw 1/4" sheetrock on the interior.

Your little cracklies aren't raised are they?

...Sounds like a neato place... Folks pay extra for that cool stuff!

I think salesmanship will get you further than anything else, in the end.

Send 'em out on the online search...

It will verify the panache of cracking plaster.
r

MrPersnickety

Tim,
I contacted Flexi-wall and asked about the product. the guy is sending me out a kit to try and see if I like it. I like the customer service so far. I'll post again when I've done some tests.
Thanks,
Jared