covering over dark brown trim - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

lornmastro · 02-19-2008, 10:35 PM

Hi all,
Have a job with dark brown trim all over the house. Would like to do it in as few coats as possible. Was planning on using sw problock latex primer and bm regal semi gloss. Does anyone else have a product they would suggest for better coverage?? Thanks lorna

**slickshift** · 02-20-2008, 06:29 AM

The pro block is pretty good
If it's stained and/or poly'd trim I wouldn't use a latex though
I'd use an oil like Zinsser's Cover Stain, or if it's real dark, Zinsser's BIN (shellac)
It's not a coverage thing, it's an adhesion (to the oil-based products on there now) and bleed through (later, after the top coats are on) issue

lornmastro · 02-20-2008, 07:29 PM

Thanks slick,
No its just painted with a real dark brown paint. I guess I'll just be in trim hell!! lol...when i'm on my fourth coat i'll probubly be crying out loud!!!WAAAAAAAAAAAhhh

BCPNJ · 02-20-2008, 07:45 PM

I agree w/slickshift, it depends on what is on there now. If it's a brown colored latex paint, you can just paint it with however many coats needed. Even if your going white, three coats max should do it.
Test it w/ Goof off or alchohol solvent, if it cuts, its latex. If it doesn't cut, it's alkyd or oil and you'll have to prime w/ alkyd first and finish with your choice.
If it's stained and varnished, you'll have to prime w/ alkyd/oil (unless it's a latex polyurethane,but I doubt it would be)- I like cover stain in oil- than finish with the flavor of your choice. I'm also assuming you'll be sanding and tacking before and between coats as well. Good luck.

Bill in VaBeach · 02-20-2008, 07:55 PM

Agree, Zinsser products should do the trick!

A bit unorthodox, and not what you'd want for an entire house's worth of trim, but for smaller odd jobs, spray gray auto body primer provides a really adhesive coating. Same prep as for any other primer, light sanding for the most part, and then oil paint will adhere to it like a magnet, no problems with bleed through. Takes a full 24 hours to dry properly before sanding and top coating. Works on old enameled cabinets too.

The wonders of Bondo will have to wait for another post!

**slickshift** · 02-20-2008, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lornmastro

...dark brown trim all over the house. Would like to do it in as few coats as possible.

Does anyone else have a product they would suggest for better coverage??

Yup..if it's dark brown latex, use BM's Aura Satin

lornmastro · 02-20-2008, 10:32 PM

Aura!!!!..slick i love you!! i didn't even think of that , haven't used it yet, but that is suppose to be one coat coverage...maybe two. will call bm dealer tomorrow!

lornmastro · 02-22-2008, 05:47 PM

Called bm dealer and am I bummed...they said something about the coverage white over dark color would not work well because of the lack of pigment in the white aura paint??? thought I(I mean slick) found a great application for that aura paint...oh well maybe one day i will get to try it.

**slickshift** · 02-22-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lornmastro

Called bm dealer and am I bummed...they said something about the coverage white over dark color would not work well because of the lack of pigment in the white aura paint??? thought I(I mean slick) found a great application for that aura paint...oh well maybe one day i will get to try it.

Uh........that's not entirely accurate
Aura's base is not a "white" to which you add pigments for "colors"
Even the whites are shot from the tint machine
As all Aura bases are tinted until the can is full, the whites have just as much tint as any other base

I have not used white Aura over dark/brown trim myself, but I have talked to more than one painter who has, and they said the results of the white over dark trim were great ("excellent" and "spectacular" if I remember correctly)
Apparently it works quite well

Again, sorry I can't say from personal experience, but I do trust the sources

**Teetorbilt** · 02-22-2008, 06:42 PM

Start with BM's oil based primer tinted to topcoat color. http://www.benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb...h_findproducts

I've been using this as a topcoat. http://www.benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb...h_findproducts

Done right, one final coat works. I discovered the combo when going from brick red to white, works great.

BTW, this is all brush and roller. Too much wind around here to spray exteriors.

Cashking63 · 02-22-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift

Uh........that's not entirely accurate
Aura's base is not a "white" to which you add pigments for "colors"
Even the whites are shot from the tint machine
As all Aura bases are tinted until the can is full, the whites have just as much tint as any other base

I have not used white Aura over dark/brown trim myself, but I have talked to more than one painter who has, and they said the results of the white over dark trim were great ("excellent" and "spectacular" if I remember correctly)
Apparently it works quite well

Again, sorry I can't say from personal experience, but I do trust the sources

i can say from personal experiance that Aura ROCKS!! I used it white over the Bm North Sea Green which is pretty dark. Expected three coats at least. I did it in two and probably could have done it in one. that stuff is great. Pricy, but great

BCPNJ · 02-22-2008, 08:12 PM

Aura- I pay 46.99 in central NJ . Thats for the matte and I've only used it three times so far on walls and the finish is great. That price is going up soon too. Maybe this week? My guy told me all Ben Moore, like around 4% across the board.

Quincunx · 02-22-2008, 08:33 PM

I would thoroughly sand and go with a high quality oil primer and your preferred top coat.

Good Luck

MakDeco · 02-23-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCPNJ

Aura- I pay 46.99 in central NJ . Thats for the matte and I've only used it three times so far on walls and the finish is great. That price is going up soon too. Maybe this week? My guy told me all Ben Moore, like around 4% across the board.

Yeah BM is having another paint cost increase I was told 3.5% across the board but could vary by area. I believe Aura has two price points only one contractor price and one retail. My price would be 46.99 also here in Chicago but haven't tried it yet. I use a small dealer who is still deciding to bring it in. He is a C2 dealer and promotes that over BM so I don't think he will get it in.

lornmastro · 02-23-2008, 05:58 PM

Hi all, thanks for the feedback. I think I will have one of my ladies pick up and pint and see how it works out. But I don;t understand why would I have to prime first if i'm going over latex paint(on an interior)??I had planned to sand and wipe as I always do.

**slickshift** · 02-23-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lornmastro

prime first if i'm going over latex paint....I had planned to sand and wipe as I always do.

That would be fine
A good latex blocking primer would be a good idea when going from dark brown to white with most paints
Myself, I would try it w/o the primer with the Aura
If nothing else it'd be a good test...that would pretty much be the extreme (aside from a black trim)

PlainPainter · 02-23-2008, 11:12 PM

I've had the unpleasant experience of going over a dark blue to white on interior trim. I had up to four coats in most places before it finally stopped the 'bleed'. The previous coat was like a heavy duty latex porch & floor paint used on the trim. It was a good solid coat but also kind of thick - and my thinking was that an alkyd primer would be a 'chippy' layer over this flexible undercoat. I would go with a stainblocking all-purpose interior/exterior latex primer - and have it tinted, heck add more white to it if you are going white. And hope to god that 2 topcoats does it.

lornmastro · 02-24-2008, 09:59 AM

I think I"m going to do a test.
1st one with latex primer/blocker then bm semi gloss
2nd one with semi gloss alone
3rd with aura

I'll let you know what I discover.
Last time i went from dark green(forest) to white it took 4 coats. 1 primer/blocker...3 semi gloss. DON"T want to repeat that again...in a whole house!!

PlainPainter · 02-24-2008, 10:22 AM

To be honest - I think it will take a blocker plus 3 coats in these situations. I was working with this one woman where we sanded some old doors painted in off-white. And she is a perfectionist - I would have just used two coats of the paint - she decided to prime - well we used Aquaglo - and it took a full 2 coats of aquaglo on top of fresh-start to get the true color - and this was over basically white trim! I always bid 4 coats to go from dark to white, what's the alternative? Go with 2 coats of primer to really kill the dark trim? Even then - will you be happy with the way just one coat of aquaglo looks? You'd still use 2 coats then, probably, right? If it was me - I'd try a latex all-purpose stain blocker as the first coat, 220 sand, then use a latex enamel undercoater meant for wood trim exclusively - so as to fill the 'pores' better. The I'd topcoat with a high gloss latex paint - and hope to god that enough resins remain on the surface so it looks like a low-lustre or semi. And if that didn't work - then just paint the remaining coat in the sheen you want.

Oh yes do not forget over all else - give that dark trim a good sanding - I don't mean just 'scuff' - I mean give it a really good pounding with 100/120 grit before you lay on some blocker. It will really improve the coverage of that first coat of primer - and maybe give you results that will cut down on the necessary coats to kill the brown.

MakDeco · 02-24-2008, 10:31 AM

Plain Painter: Maybe the problem was the Aquaglo

. I think it is even worse now for trim since they re formulated it. I am going to have to try Aura one of these days.

All my trim for the last several years has been Muralos waterborne, don't think I would go back to anything else.