Concerned Client

Paulf

I have a client that is concerned that if I fall of a ladder on the job that he is liable for it. Ive always thought that I was liable?Anyone been in this position before?

Tom R

You either have insurance or you don't.

You tell us.

slickshift

Generally:
If you have liability ins. then it's you
If you don't it's them

But in the event of a lawyer/ins.co fight:
Even if you do, but they bought the materials, it could be them (H/O acting as a GC)
If you do but work hourly for them, it could be them (working as an employee)

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

slickshift

^^^but if you do...don't tell them that^^^
Those are unusual
Just say you are covered

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

AAPaint

They have nothing to be concerned about if you are properly licensed and insured. If you're already doing work and they haven't even seen a copy of your liability insurance you've both made mistakes. They should have asked for a copy regardless of anything, and you, as a professional should have offered that copy before they asked. That's how I do it.

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-AAPaint

AA Quality Painting & Pressure Washing LLC
Jacksonville Painters
Jacksonville, FL.

theworx

Ok, here's a silly question from a stunned Canuck. Slick, you said liability insurance would cover you if you were hurt on a job in a clients home. I'm confused because I thought liability insurance covered you if you accidently *****ed up something during a job (like did something to the structure which required major work to repair)...

I also thought that it was disability insurance that covered you in the situation where you got hurt while working??? My question is, does liability insurance cover both situations?

ProWallGuy

theworx nailed it. If you fall off a ladder, workmens comp covers that, not your liability insur nor the homeowners insur. Now, if when you fall off said ladder, and your melon pokes a hole in the wall on the way down, then the liability insur takes care of that.
BUT, if you don't have workmans comp, and you fall of a ladder at their house, you could sue their homeowners insur. That is why its important for customers to hire someone who has wc coverage.

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Wallpaper Hanger St. Louis
Digital Murals Installation

theworx

Thanx ProWall, I just thought that maybe your insurance system worked differently down there... When I had my own gig for a few years I had disability insurance (but not liability)... Then again almost all my jobs were just taping and painting (if I put my melon through the wall I'd just fix it myself)... I had a statement in my contract that the work would be done to the customers satisfaction before final payment was made. That was my liability insurance because at that time couldn't afford the extra cost of liability insurance on top of disability. Never had a problem signing up new clients...

JMGP

Put this into your contract....


Insurance: Contractor agrees to maintain insurance in commercially reasonable amounts and agrees to indemnify and hold Customer harmless from any and all damages, costs, injuries, or other claims resulting from the work of contractor, it's employess, agents or sub-contractors pursuant to this contract.

Those who are ligit should have no problem including that into your contract to allow the customer to feel more compfortable about hiring you.

Guardi Pro

Can we discuss this a little further? What if your a one man show, which i beleive alot of us on this site are. Why do you need W/C? you have no employees but yourself... Down here in FL. we can be W/C exempt. Alot of the GC here require that you provide them a copy that your exempt. We do have liability ins. but that's a mute point here.

Mike Finley

It's a double edge sword - on the one hand you can protect the customer legally in most states by exempting yourself as the owner from WC. That covers the legal aspect for the customer, but the other side of that is what about you? You're working without a net so to speak, especially for anything disabling.

Downeast

Covering your self on workmans comp is a 3k nut a year,cash up front last I checked.Being a sole proprietor ,that is a big chunk to fork out.Good idea but pricey.

The liability covers damages and was my understanding that if I injured another person ,Such as If I was doing lawn maintenance,and the mower spit out a rock and took out someones eye.

EDENSCAPES@DNET

Here in North Carolina you aren't required to have wc if you're a owner. My insurance agent wouldn't even discuss prices on disability - too many claiming injuries that happened off the job as happening on the job. I have liabiliity - covered in cause of property damage or hurting someone else. Insurance certificate is requested on some bids and should be requested on all jobs where you're a sub. By the way my insurance agent says the likelyhood of sueing a owner because you're hurt at his house is almost impossible if you are using your own tools. Also if you do more than one craft then be sure to have them all on your insurance. If you're covered for painting and do landscaping also and throw a rock through a window they won't pay.

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Eden Scapes

Downeast

Here in Ma, a sole pro can get wc,It was 3k+ year and a half ago.

Yes I cover all aspects of my lines of work in my liability.Different work gets different rates,such as roofing vs painting,vs landscapeing.

There are other types of insurance one can get to cover injury.

KellyPainting

O.k... you didn't here it from me and we never had this discussion... but
I just recently picked up gen liability.. and equiptment insurance in mass and my insurance guy quoted me the same outrages numbers for workmans comp.... and when I told him it will never happen.... he suggested this....now it was a while ago, and I didn't get all the details.. but he said I can get workmans comp for my guys.. at $500 a year.. and if something happens he can show them on the books w/ comp previous to the ficticious accident... so I give him $500 bucks.. and no one is actually covered... but if something happens... there coverage kicks in a week before something happens.... didn't ask too many questions ... but I think I might do it.... give him money that is....What he does will be out of my control ofcourse......

Mike Finley

oh boy...

Tom Rohland

KellyPainting from the Great State of Mass:


You're UNBELIEVABLE!


Perhaps you should have posted this on the FRADULENT CONTRACTOR'S BOARD.


To say the least your complete lack of a Professional Standard of Conduct amazes me.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this a display of your TRUE COLORS?


I want no part of it.


HIT THE ROAD, JACK!


Tom Rohland, Jr.
Ranger Painting & Pressure Cleaning, Inc.
Lake Mary, Florida



I make a motion that KellyPainting be severely reprimanded immediately by the Site Administrators in the manner in which they see fit.

Can I get a second on that?

slickshift

...actually we're not a state
We're a "Commonwealth"

...and it wouldn't be the first time someone offered up illegal or "bad" advice on this site
There's no rules against that

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

Tom Rohland

Slick,

You're correct. There are NO rules against it.

I withdraw my motion.

Oh, by the way, Massachusetts was the 6th State entered into the Union in the late 1700's.

Are you the same Slick that's confused on the difference between worker's comp and general liability insurance?

What are you smoking up there Boy?

Rolled Cod?

LOL and just having fun!

Tom Rohland, Jr.
BALLBUSTERS ARE US

Jonesey

Legally, if you're a one man show in OK, you're not required by law to have coverage. But then, you can't sue for disability if you own the business and get hurt. And most GC's won't hire you. You can exempt yourself, which is what I did, for around $350 per year. You can cover yourself for 8.5%, half year up front, the other half remitted monthly thereafter.

When you look at what you actually get for that coverage, it's actually fairly wise to exempt. Here, the top they'll pay out is $447 per week you're unable to work. Medical pays at 80%. Disability payout is $2,000 per 10% disabled. That's why it's so cheap here.

I'll have to pay out at 8.47% of wages to temporary help to have them covered, remitted monthly. To me, that was a steal to avoid my own liability. Honestly, I don't want to spend the next five years of my life building a company to have it stolen by the first guy who "hurt his back " moving solid-core doors. Or worse, have a real accident happen that I feel I'm responsible for.

This is where smart planning has to come in. Having comp is a necessity even if you don't plan to get hurt. Having a helper stand on a nail on a new home site can cost you $700 in emergency room visits alone. That's just one incident, and doesn't include lost time out of your schedule.

I planned for comp and charge for it. I sunk my own brand of co-insurance into my overhead: I charge a premium for ladder work, anything that's dangerous gets me a padding.

The real problem is that I'm only getting 1 out of 5 bids atm. It'll get easier as I grow to spread my overhead over a larger number of employees, but I don't dare cut my rates right now. Can't afford to take on work I can't afford to finish. That's just the way it is.

I splurged on gen. liability. Got $2 mill. ($1 mill per occurance) I did that because my market expects it. They need to know they're covered and I use the extra $60 a year to close the sale on the jobs I want. No kidding, it wasn't that much more expensive at all.

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Steve Jones
steve@jonespaintingonline.com
Jones Painting Feel the difference service makes