clear chipping off decal - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Traditions2 · 04-06-2009, 07:45 AM

THis acid stain job I did turned out great. However, the person called this a.m. and said the clear on the decal has chipped up in a couple places. I used a high solids aliphatic urethane. I did notice when the guy put the decal on that it had some air bubbles in it. Do you think this could be why the clear is popping? He said it is only little spots and the decal is the only place it is doing it.? Can't figure out anything else that would cause it.?

WisePainter · 04-06-2009, 09:09 AM

If the sticker is moving due to air bubbles, the clear coat doesn't stand a chance.
Man that sucks...I have had floor coating issues myself.

Can you get in and slice all of the bubbles with a razor, then touch up those areas with clear coat?

Traditions2 · 04-06-2009, 09:41 AM

Wise,

I'm thinking it has to be due to the air bubbles. The whole floor was grinded down so the clear should have bit into that very well. However, I remember thinking when the decal went down that it looked like air bubbles. The decal guy said it wouldn't be a problem. I asked him if we could slice the bubbles then and he didn't reccomend because of the chance of clear getting under the decal and lifting it. Luckily it isn't a huge decal and I can go touch the spots up as needed.

WisePainter · 04-06-2009, 10:35 AM

The decal contractor may have been correct, but in my mind a clear coat isn't going to have a major "lifting" reaction to the sticker's adhesive before it cured.
At worst the clear coat would have reacted with the glue temporarily watering it down, then cured just fine.
In my opinion that is.

Kudos to you for sticking it out!
As long as the rest of the floor isn't failing, you shouldn't lose sleep over it too much.
I give you a REAL mess that occurred at my Church in Florida, this was done by a full time floor staining Co.:

As you can see they stopped due to quality issues...water based concrete stain, eurgh. They took no money up front and the GC told me they weren't gonna see any money until it was fixed.
I moved shortly after so I don't know the outcome.
They need to lose some sleep...

Coca Cola anyone?

Traditions2 · 04-06-2009, 11:15 AM

Wow, thats crazy! Did that happen after they put the clear on? It looks like all prep was done correctly. It looks like they ran a blastrac system over the concrete or something. I'd love to hear how that turned out!

WisePainter · 04-06-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditions2

Wow, thats crazy! Did that happen after they put the clear on? It looks like all prep was done correctly. It looks like they ran a blastrac system over the concrete or something. I'd love to hear how that turned out!

I don't think the guy that did the job knows what happened...he said he had never used the water based stain before. From the worried look on his face I could tell he was in over his head, and I felt kind of bad for him. I did offer to apply some ArmorSeal to the floor, but was overlooked as a possible contractor and they hired this guy instead. Whoops.
I will do what I can to learn more about he outcome, I have been curious for awhile now and this thread has brought my curiosity to the surface.

world llc · 04-06-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WisePainter

I don't think the guy that did the job knows what happened...he said he had never used the water based stain before. From the worried look on his face I could tell he was in over his head, and I felt kind of bad for him. I did offer to apply some ArmorSeal to the floor, but was overlooked as a possible contractor and they hired this guy instead. Whoops.
I will do what I can to learn more about he outcome, I have been curious for awhile now and this thread has brought my curiosity to the surface.

i smell sabotage

WisePainter · 04-06-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by world llc

i smell sabotage

MWAH HA HA!!!!

no.

They apparently did a good job at sabotaging their own job.

Traditions2 · 04-06-2009, 12:00 PM

was the end product supposed to look like acid stain? Looks to me like I ate too much acid and picture look funny

WisePainter · 04-06-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditions2

was the end product supposed to look like acid stain? Looks to me like I ate too much acid and picture look funny

i have felt that way at a few Grateful Dead concerts...

I believe your floor is what the outcome was supposed to look like, yours looks really nice.

Have you discussed any options with your client to resolve the chipping? I cannot imagine that he is raging on you do to the 2 party factor involved with the process.
I am surprised the decal guy didn't mention any adhesion issues due to the less than smooth surface after mechanically grinding the floor.

I vote to blame the decal guy, T&M to repair his mistake!!

Traditions2 · 04-06-2009, 01:09 PM

Grateful dead

I agree it's all the decal guys fault. In my opinion after he laid the decal I could see some dirt under the decal and the air bubbles. I plan on touching up the chipped areas and leaving some clear for them to touch up as needed in the future. They are pretty cool about it. It isn't anywhere else. They are just worried that it is going to continue to chip and damage the decal.

Traditions2 · 04-06-2009, 01:10 PM

do you know what part of the process caused the problems? Surely it wasn't in the initial first coat.? Maybe when they tried to lay a solvent clear over it? What a mess.

Did they score the tile lines into it?

WisePainter · 04-06-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditions2

Grateful dead

I agree it's all the decal guys fault. In my opinion after he laid the decal I could see some dirt under the decal and the air bubbles. I plan on touching up the chipped areas and leaving some clear for them to touch up as needed in the future. They are pretty cool about it. It isn't anywhere else. They are just worried that it is going to continue to chip and damage the decal.

GD 1990~'95!

Oh you can be sure that decal is gonna present future issues with bubbles still present, but it sounds like you are under the radar and safe.
I was thinking that maybe next time, lay a single coat of clear and then apply the decal?
This is a great case study for future jobs indeed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditions2

do you know what part of the process caused the problems? Surely it wasn't in the initial first coat.? Maybe when they tried to lay a solvent clear over it? What a mess.

Did they score the tile lines into it?

Apparently this had not been clear coated yet, he claimed that the issues were present in the "rinse" process. I have never done this type of finish on concrete so the lingo is foreign to me.
The expansion joints were pre~cut, and I wanted to use a 4~5 colored epoxy scheme to create a random color pattern.

Traditions2 · 04-06-2009, 02:46 PM

I did lay done a light coat prior to the sticker being laid. Not sure why there were so air bubbles.? Hind site I shouldn't have sprayed it. HOwever, I did bring it up to the owner and decal guy. Neither seemed to think it was a concern.

WisePainter · 04-06-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditions2

I did lay done a light coat prior to the sticker being laid. Not sure why there were so air bubbles.? Hind site I shouldn't have sprayed it. HOwever, I did bring it up to the owner and decal guy. Neither seemed to think it was a concern.

I say the blame is all on the decal guy knowing now that you did apply a clear coat base for him to ruin your reputation...'er place his decal.

Sounds like this is going to pay off your mortgage having to do maintenance work for the next few years!

Still sucks though that you are dealing with this now.

Traditions2 · 04-06-2009, 08:29 PM

went by tonight and there are definately two areas where the clear came off. Unfortunately the decal was torn in one of the areas. I cleared over the top of it but it is going to continue to be a problem. The owner was cool. He said if he had to he'd just get another decal laid.

WisePainter · 04-06-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditions2

went by tonight and there are definately two areas where the clear came off. Unfortunately the decal was torn in one of the areas. I cleared over the top of it but it is going to continue to be a problem. The owner was cool. He said if he had to he'd just get another decal laid.

It is really tough for me to do what I know is necessary in order to "fix" a job, especially on a freshly completed job.
Tear it all out and start over.
That always kills me, and I try everything I know first to avoid it.
Sometimes I just can't.
At least this was not your fault, and for once the client is siding with the painter! You should play the lottery tomorrow with that kind of luck.

Maybe using an adhesive like 3M Super77 spray tack under the decal instead of relying on the factory adhesive would affix the decal more securely, so that even if it had bubbles they would be solid?
Or some other brand of alternative adhesive.