charging by the hour? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

outsidethelines · 11-06-2007, 02:51 PM

I know everyone hates the "how much should I charge" questions, and I guess in a way it does seem lazy, but sometimes I just need a quick answer because I don't have time to "work it out." I have to get a change order in fast and I am thinking of charging an hourly rate (which I have never done before).

What would a painting contractor charge for change order work in the SF Bay Area as an hourly rate? I would like to charge $50.00 an hour. But, from their end that might seem a bit excessive.

PlainPainter · 11-06-2007, 03:27 PM

Why would it seem excessive from their end? Have they ever owned and operated a painting contracting company and know the costs involved? $50/hr is pretty close to bottom of the barrel hourly pricing for a legit painting firm in high priced areas.

outsidethelines · 11-06-2007, 03:44 PM

PlainPainterWhy would it seem excessive from their end? Have they ever owned and operated a painting contracting company and know the costs involved? $50/hr is pretty close to bottom of the barrel hourly pricing for a legit painting firm in high priced areas.

Hmmmmm......bottom of the barrel?

send_it_all · 11-06-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outsidethelines

PlainPainterWhy would it seem excessive from their end? Have they ever owned and operated a painting contracting company and know the costs involved? $50/hr is pretty close to bottom of the barrel hourly pricing for a legit painting firm in high priced areas.

Hmmmmm......bottom of the barrel?

Yes. You could probably charge $65 and if the customer has had any work done recently, or if it is a GC, they probably won't blink.

send_it_all · 11-06-2007, 03:49 PM

Apparently, if you were an electrician, or maybe a neuro-surgeon, you could slap em with a bill for $400/hr. because electricians and brain surgeons are gods among men.

George Z · 11-06-2007, 04:46 PM

Wrong answers, again!
Spend some time with a calculator
and find out what your hourly rate has to be.

A one man operation charging $60.00 will not make as much money
as a well run larger company charging $45.00.

George Z · 11-06-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by send_it_all

Apparently, if you were an electrician, or maybe a neuro-surgeon, you could slap em with a bill for $400/hr. because electricians and brain surgeons are gods among men.

Neuro-surgery Plus Inc with one surgeon at $400 per hour
will not necessarily have as much income as the Wet Brush Company
charging $50.00 with 30 painters.

send_it_all · 11-06-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

Wrong answers, again!
Spend some time with a calculator
and find out what your hourly rate has to be.

A one man operation charging $60.00 will not make as much money
as a well run larger company charging $45.00.

Get over yourself. What you seem to be telling him is to add up his expenses and charge the minimum amount he needs. Sounds to me like he NEEDS less than $50/hr. What we are telling him is that we believe that based on the market here in our state, that he could very likely charge more than that. How is that a wrong answer.

PlainPainter · 11-06-2007, 05:21 PM

George - not everyone wants to run a 30-man company. And I believe business models have to be radically different. At best you can only
get B work with large type crews - not the single master/painter. If making money was as simple as getting more guys - everybody would be doing it.
I've made 3 attempts at it - so far has been failures - not saying you can't do it - but it's not easy, and now you have to go after tons of work - I can't find enough work, even with advertizing to keep myself busy. And not to mention - how does having multiple crews benefit you for a 1 bedroom repaint? you can't fit 30 guys in a single bedroom. Certain jobs don't warrant more than one worker, and what you save by paying a worker a lower rate, you lose by employing a full-time salesman running around, making sure you have 30 bedroom jobs to do each week. You can have it - my opinion, you need at least $60/hr at 'on the wall' time - to be succesful as your own painting contractor. How big is your crew, George?

mahlere · 11-06-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by send_it_all

Apparently, if you were an electrician, or maybe a neuro-surgeon, you could slap em with a bill for $400/hr. because electricians and brain surgeons are gods among men.

nothing to argue with in that statement...

so long as you are talking about a competant neuro-surgeon...

send_it_all · 11-06-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahlere

nothing to argue with in that statement...

so long as you are talking about a competant neuro-surgeon...

lol

George Z · 11-06-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by send_it_all

Get over yourself. What you seem to be telling him is to add up his expenses and charge the minimum amount he needs. Sounds to me like he NEEDS less than $50/hr. What we are telling him is that we believe that based on the market here in our state, that he could very likely charge more than that. How is that a wrong answer.

Quote:

How is that a wrong answer?

Because "charge the minimum amount he needs" should include:

- Labour(including his wages if he is painting) and materials
- His Overhead (including what he wants his salary to be)
- His Net profit (whatever he wants it to be)

Needs means wants

George Z · 11-06-2007, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlainPainter

George - not everyone wants to run a 30-man company. And I believe business models have to be radically different. At best you can only
get B work with large type crews - not the single master/painter. If making money was as simple as getting more guys - everybody would be doing it.
I've made 3 attempts at it - so far has been failures - not saying you can't do it - but it's not easy, and now you have to go after tons of work - I can't find enough work, even with advertizing to keep myself busy. And not to mention - how does having multiple crews benefit you for a 1 bedroom repaint? you can't fit 30 guys in a single bedroom. Certain jobs don't warrant more than one worker, and what you save by paying a worker a lower rate, you lose by employing a full-time salesman running around, making sure you have 30 bedroom jobs to do each week. You can have it - my opinion, you need at least $60/hr at 'on the wall' time - to be succesful as your own painting contractor. How big is your crew, George?

You wear different hats, but you are still a salesman, a painter, a manager.
Do you get paid for these activities?
Basic business principles are the same.

Quote:

If making money was as simple as getting more guys - everybody would be doing it. I've made 3 attempts at it - so far has been failures

Not that simple, but it's been done daily by a lot of companies.
We are doing ok, and getting better at it every day.

Quote:

How big is your crew?

We have 9 people on Payroll now,
but we need at least three more going into the winter.

None of this happened overnight, I have been a painter for over 20 years.
It's only the last 2-3 years. I can really say I have been running a business.
There is enough information in this Discussion Board to run a great business.

outsidethelines · 11-06-2007, 07:01 PM

Well, I decided to go with the $50 an hour. I get what you are all saying about large company vs one man business. My crew is small. By the way, he is a she. I'm a female painting contractor. It's a long story.

Anyway, I appreciate all that was written here because I have lost the last five exterior bids to larger companies who can charge less, and have large crews who can get the work done faster. I agree with what was said about the quality of their work not being as good. I know I (we) can do much better, high end work. It is their loss. I get all my work through referral. Have never had to advertise. They spend tons of money on advertising!!!
I just need to work harder to get the interior jobs and focus my energy on promoting the benifits of hiring a small business who can offer more personalized service and an eye for detail.

Thank you for all the advice.

PlainPainter · 11-06-2007, 07:36 PM

I've pretty much let go of the exterior painting side of the business - not that I won't quote it if asked by a referral - but why pay tons of marketing only to go up against immigrant crews? If people want quality - they'll farm you out. People getting multiple estimates - are the type that are only going to use price as an indication. Interior repaints is where I am still focusing my energy - hopefully you can convince people of your services over cheap street urchins - yeah, I am still fighting for interior. Like George - I will have to wait for 15 years of service and referrals before building up a business - most guys I see don't last 5 years.

outsidethelines · 11-06-2007, 08:25 PM

To be honest, I am so fed up with this job to begin with; with drywallers doing crappy work all over and expecting me to fix it (oh hell no), the carpenters not working on schedule and delaying my work to the point of causing me extra work as a result (ended up rolling out 30 doors by hand rather than spraying), tile guys showing up whenever they please causing the bathroom painting to be delayed till God only knows when, and the freak'n designer changing her mind making me redo stuff, and waiting forever to show up to approve the colors based on the brushouts that I did like a week before min. and the weather and the this and the that.....FUDGE! I figure at $50.00 an hour for change order work, the GC is getting off easy!!!

I feel a little better now, LOL

**ProWallGuy** · 11-06-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outsidethelines

To be honest, I am so fed up with this job to begin with; with drywallers doing crappy work all over and expecting me to fix it (oh hell no), the carpenters not working on schedule and delaying my work to the point of causing me extra work as a result (ended up rolling out 30 doors by hand rather than spraying), tile guys showing up whenever they please causing the bathroom painting to be delayed till God only knows when, and the freak'n designer changing her mind making me redo stuff, and waiting forever to show up to approve the colors based on the brushouts that I did like a week before min. and the weather and the this and the that.....FUDGE! I figure at $50.00 an hour for change order work, the GC is getting off easy!!!

I feel a little better now, LOL

And that is why I won't do new construction anymore.