Certa Pro - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

pstorey · 06-11-2007, 07:14 PM

Just got an e-mail from a potential client asking me why my bid was 2 grand more than the Certa Pro bid. In San Fran. where I am, Certa Pro hires subs who are usually guys who can't rustle up the work on their own, uses the cheapest, crappiest materials and operates a bonus system that rewards their painters for coming in under budget but penalises them for coming in over.
I'm going to work on my response tonight and post it here also but I am wondering if anyone has any more info. on Certa Pro?
Thanks.

ModernStyle · 06-11-2007, 08:31 PM

around my area Certa Pro uses illegals , dont know if I ever bid against them

Wolverine-Eric · 06-11-2007, 08:41 PM

Maybe you'll get some ideas from this:

Quote:

Dear Customer,

I know that it is difficult to navigate the 'ins' and 'outs' of competitive paint bids. It can be mind boggling just to understand what you are getting for your money. I would definately be concerned about the difference in price. I can't really comment about what corners that will be cut, the quality of the paint, or the subcontractors that will be used in the low bid. However, I can assure you that our company will do an outstanding job without cutting corners that could cost you money in the future. In addition, you won't find us at Walmart buying the paint that only lasts for a little over 2 years. Most importantly, we will not subcontract the painting of your ____ to substandard low wage or untrained workers. Our employees are highly trained and have learned to recognize and neutralize potential hidden problems. In addition, I will personally be there to ensure that the quality of our work meets your expectations.

Again, I want to thank you for giving us this opportunity to care for your house. I'm sure you've heard the phrase many times that you usually get what you pay for. I want to assure you that this will be one of those times if you give us the opportunity to complete this work for you.

pstorey · 06-11-2007, 09:40 PM

Thanks Eric.
I'm gonna use it!

Here's what I was going to post.
From what I understand about Certa Pro they use a high number of subcontractors on their projects.
These companies work on a bonus basis, meaning the quicker they finish a project the more they get paid and vice versa. Having worked for a company that utilized a similar system, I have seen first hand how this process can encourage cutting corners and skipping crucial tasks that contribute to the early failure of an exterior paint job. I am sure I could drop our price down to a comparable figure but there wouldn't be a budget for the prep. thats needed to ensure your paint job lasts

I believe Redhill offers a higher quality paint job for the
following reasons:
Our prep is more comprehensive. We scrape all existing cracking and peeling
paint that is not adhering to the substrate off and sand the edges smooth.
We then fully oil prime the surfaces to be painted and patch rough areas
with Bondo to create a smooth finish for the final coat.
After caulking for aesthetic and protective needs we will spot prime all
patches and apply 2 coats of Benjamin Moore MoorGard or MoorGlo high end,
exterior finish paint.
Your decks will be brightened, power washed and finished with an oil based,
penetrating sealer.

We take pride in our work
and we will work hard to ensure you are happy with the final
product. As a locally based business, rather than a nationwide franchise, we
are looking to establish long term community ties and a commitment to
reliability and quality

Finally, take a look at some of our previous jobs on our website or drive
by. I'm happy to give you a list of Victorian facades similar to yours.

Hope this helps,

Philip

**slickshift** · 06-11-2007, 09:58 PM

Excellent

Small points
I think you should use the word 'preparation' rather than 'prep' though
And I'm not sure you should say 'I'm sure we could drop our price....'
Maybe "...we couldn't drop our price w/o skimping on the preparation..."

Just fine tuning

Carry On

pstorey · 06-11-2007, 10:16 PM

I appreciate your input. god is in the details...

Joewho · 06-11-2007, 11:34 PM

My last job was bid by certa pro, but I got the work.

Dave Mac · 06-12-2007, 06:16 AM

i would never bad mouth the competition, to a client, can you prove all those claims.

PressurePros · 06-12-2007, 10:36 AM

I agree with Dave. Use the one Wolverine posted as an outline. I would also include somewhere in there the classic line "The cheapest price is often not the least expensive". Talk to the customer as a person (I would honestly call them before sending a letter). Remind them that they have to look at that paint job every day and that the bitterness of poor quality will remain long after the joy they may recieve taking a lesser bid (variation on another classic line)

Tom Rohland · 06-12-2007, 11:28 AM

Long after the low price is forgotten, the shoddy paint job remains.

Tom Rohland, Jr.
Ranger Painting & Pressure Cleaning, Inc.
Lake Mary, Florida

pstorey · 06-12-2007, 06:09 PM

From where I'm standing, I don't believe I'm bad mouthing Certa Pro , jus alerting the customer to their way of doing business. Any ex Certa Pro painter round here will tell you they use a budget system subcontractors.
Anyhow I used Eric's letter in an e-mail and the client responded straight away, very impressed. He even sent me the Certa Pro contract which was different from mine because they specced 1 coat where I specified 2 and they preferred to go with ladders where I bid scaffold.

BMAN · 06-12-2007, 08:20 PM

Just tell them that some contractors hire crackheads. Crackheads are known to work a lot faster due to the fact that they smoke breakfast. However they get a little jittery around lunch time and sometimes don't come back for days. *** in no way do we think that certa pro hires crack heads*** We only said that some companies do!

pstorey · 06-12-2007, 11:01 PM

Or to quote the good Doctor -
"Fed up with their commonplace lying and deception, he decided to fabricate information about them, since they had been fabricating information about everything else. During one of Thompson’s infamous digressions, he relates a story from the ’68 presidential campaign in which Lyndon Johnson “told his manager to start a massive rumor campaign about his opponent’s lifelong habit of enjoying carnal knowledge of his own barnyard sows.” The campaign manager protests that nobody will believe that the guy’s a “pig****er.”

“I know,” Johnson replied. “But let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”

Jethroe · 06-13-2007, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Mac

i would never bad mouth the competition, to a client, can you prove all those claims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstorey

I believe Redhill offers a higher quality paint job for the
following reasons:
Our prep is more comprehensive. We scrape all existing cracking and peeling
paint that is not adhering to the substrate off and sand the edges smooth.
We then fully oil prime the surfaces to be painted and patch rough areas
with Bondo to create a smooth finish for the final coat.
After caulking for aesthetic and protective needs we will spot prime all
patches and apply 2 coats of Benjamin Moore MoorGard or MoorGlo high end,
exterior finish paint.
Your decks will be brightened, power washed and finished with an oil based,
penetrating sealer.

We take pride in our work
and we will work hard to ensure you are happy with the final
product. As a locally based business, rather than a nationwide franchise, we
are looking to establish long term community ties and a commitment to
reliability and quality

Finally, take a look at some of our previous jobs on our website or drive
by. I'm happy to give you a list of Victorian facades similar to yours.

I believe that he just did Prove It!!

I can't stand Certa Pro or any organization like it. I hat middle men that come into a project and take all of the money, lowball the competition and actually you can tell there reps feel like they are better than us the actual painters.. Ha Ha!!
Certa Pro guy was at the gas station the other day in his new truck they gave him with this real fancy paint job all over it of cabinetry , a house , and paint going on the walls with rollers looked real sleek I must say. But I rolled down my window on my "Work Truck" and asked the guy where was the paint on his clothes??

He looked away...

Oh and by the way.. same guy about a year ago ignored me... a real painter when I showed interest in their co. and asked for some work.
A week later I talked to another painter that was hired by him to do work. This so called painter was straight off the street no truck or equipment insurance or anything yet Certta Pro hired him over me??!!
and probably was a crack head.

Go Figure

Joewho · 06-13-2007, 10:38 PM

Below is a review from the last customer, whom went to certa pro first.

I didn't request the review, it's for a consumer site she used to find me.

Description of Work:Tim painted my two story stair well, upstairs hall, two story ceiling, laundry room, loft, stair railing and all the paneled doors in the house. He repaired a corner that had gotten dinged during a furniture move.

Member Comments:Tim answered my call and quickly came to my house for an estimate. He was on time each day. He covered the floors with cloths and protected the carpets and walls as he was painting. He cleaned up as he went. He also got along with my two kittens and was able to work around them and their curiosity. All in all I am VERY happy with both Tim and his work and would recommend him to any of my friends.

Saw a 5 star truck down the street from the one I'm on now. Painted on the truck, "$99.00 per room". I'm just really curious why a person with an occupied 1M+ home would call someone that does it for 99/room. I seriously doubt they do a room for 99 dollars, but that's the bait.

Oh well, that's how it is. Maybe someday I'll become more interested in making money than being absorbed in the actual work. As far as I'm concerned, people will pay money for the pose. You look good, sound good, act as if you are the **** compared to other painters, and people will pay you a buttload of money.

Don't believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see.....

SeanATL · 06-14-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joewho

Oh well, that's how it is. Maybe someday I'll become more interested in making money than being absorbed in the actual work. As far as I'm concerned, people will pay money for the pose. You look good, sound good, act as if you are the **** compared to other painters, and people will pay you a buttload of money.

Bingo!

Do you paint to make money or you just love working?

I know the 5 star guys in vegas very well.

I do this to make money, and to make a lot of money.

daArch · 06-15-2007, 09:32 PM

Although there is much bad to be said about these organizations, from the quality of work, to the hiring "ethics", to the responsibility they accept, to the marketing, to EVERYTHING they do, it does, in fact, make YOU look bad when you knock the competition. Philip, I am very happy your customer responded favorably, it won't happen everytime. You can make the same impact by letting the CUSTOMER draw conclusions. Invite them to compare the fine print. Tell them your years of experience. List the number of satisfied customers. Say you have references. By pointing out your strengths, they will THEN look how Certa/College/Student/ -Pro compares.

BTW, I gotta assume it's just a coincidence you have the same name as an old friend/comrade-in-paint from back here (Mass). You're not the same one, are you?

paint_booger · 06-15-2007, 10:00 PM

I gave a lady a bid for her kitchen back in 1990. She snapped when I gave it to her. One was 500. Mine was 1250. Another was 2000. She was insane about the price differences, and asked me why. I explained the ranges of quality, insurance, and the price for a certified union painter. Illegals paid cash vs. 25 year professionals.

pstorey · 06-16-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daArch

BTW, I gotta assume it's just a coincidence you have the same name as an old friend/comrade-in-paint from back here (Mass). You're not the same one, are you?

Thanks for your input. I agree with your points but at the same time I'm not going to bite my tongue when I feel strongly that another company will do sub standard work and leave the customer disappointed. I've watched these guys flout lead abatement laws openly and driven by jobs they've finished less than a month back and the paint is cracking and peeling already. I think it's OK to let the customer know my concerns when using certain other contactors and I give them the addresses of those jobs as well as some of mine so they can make their own mind up.

P.s. I've spent some time in Mass., mainly the berkshires but i'm CA. all the way

daArch · 06-16-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstorey

I'm not going to bite my tongue when I feel strongly that another company will do sub standard work and leave the customer disappointed. I've watched these guys flout lead abatement laws openly and driven by jobs they've finished less than a month back and the paint is cracking and peeling already. I think it's OK to let the customer know my concerns when using certain other contactors and I give them the addresses of those jobs as well as some of mine so they can make their own mind up.

I hear you, man. I hope you can make a negative impact on these FRAUDS while retaining your own reputation.

I asked my wife if "our" Phil Storey was still in the area. And she said, "yes! He's in Canton ... or is it Dorchester ..... or is he living in Dedham now......?" I was beginning to think he DID move west.