rocco

Hello

I have been in my own business now just over 2 years and last month was the first big argument I had with a customer. I would like to know how you guys approach this situation I am about to talk about.

I was doing a small job last month, 4 days total. I explained to the customer payment is due immedietl upon job completion. The day before I finished I told the customer I will be done tomorrow about noon. The customer was home all day, all 3 days I worked and then the fourth day he went to work! He came home for lunch on the fourth(last) day and I told him I will be done in an hour. He said He wo,t be home till 5 oclock if I want to come by for the check. Calmly i asked if he would leave a check since he won,t be here when I am done. He did not like that idea at all. He started pacing in front of me stating he is not comfortable with doing that since he cannot see the finished product. I said I really don't want to have to come back during rush hour to get paid. He become increasingly agitated. Long story short we started shouting. I kept cool for a few minutes while he tried to intimidate me and outsmart me. I explained how I told him i was to be paid immediatley upon completion. I told him that is why I let him know the day before I was to be done. I even told him how convenient it was for him to go back to work on the day I was to finish!

Don't get me wrong--I have gone back many times to get paid, butI am trying to stop that. I think some bigger companies don't get paid for weeks. But I am just me and I am living paycheck to paycheck. So what do you guys tell your customers? Is it unreasonable to ask for a check if they are not going to be there when I am finished? Is it unreasonable to ask for payment immediatly?

Thanks rocco

mdshunk

Rocco... if you were going to be done at 1:00, and he's not available to pay you until 5:00, that's still immediately. You blew it. You're the ass, in this case. No other way to put it.

Mandrake

Payment upon completion is not unreasonable. Payment prior to completion, even 1 hour, may be asking too much of many customers. No matter what, people don't like parting with their $$.

I have seen many folks pay early but it is usually the customer that initiates it.

Was he pleased with the work??

Did you get a deposit?

I would rather have a happy customer who pays a few hours late and can refer me to others. You can use the check pick-up as an opportunity to solicit future business and maybe get some referals.

Go back and apologize. Offer a discount on the next job and turn a bad situation into a positive one

Mndrk

send_it_all

I agree with the previous responses. I wouldn't have put it as bluntly as mdshunk, but you were out of line asking for payment before he had the chance to closely inspect the finished product. If you didnt want to drive back to pick up a check, why didn't you just ask him to drop it in the mail box? If you couldnt wait a couple of days for the money, you should have just made the 2nd trip. Either way, you should go back and apologize. I know it stings the pride, but if I were in your shoes, I would tell him that you talked it over with other professionals, and you now realize that you were in the wrong.

__________________
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
I used the wrong method with the wrong technique

Mike Finley

Rocco - payment at completion means at completion, not an hour before. Sure he could have done it, but sure he could refuse. We have in our contract final payment at end of business day.

I really hope you weren't waiting for a large percentage on the last day. I suggest you try to keep that final payment down to 5-10% at most. Don't tempt those that are temptable. I wonder what the out come would have been had you two only been discussing 5%.

__________________
bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Control your own destiny or someone else will!

PressurePros

I have been on jobs where the homeowner was leaving just prior to job completion. Let me tell you... nine time outta ten, that raises a red flag with me. All of a sudden 1 day, three days a week goes by and you have to become a bill colector. I have asked them politley if they wouldn't mind saving me a trip and themselves a stamp. A few people may pause but at that point I have built their trust and they have seen our company ethic. Then there are people who send me payment in full for projects we haven't even started yet. Everyone is different. Never get into a shouting match with a customer. Thats stupid.

__________________
Ken Fenner
Pressure Washing PA
Ipe Deck Cleaning
Cleaning Contractors

Celtic

If the customer hasn't had a chance to inspect/review the job, who determines that the job "completed" was actually the job agreed upon?
You?

I wouldn't (and haven't in the past and won't in the future) pay until I have had a chance to inspect the job.

In my own business, final payment is not due until AFTER final inspection (State law)...but I do not leave a substantial amount of money "on the table' waiting for that day

__________________

jackrabbit5

You'll never win an argument with a customer by shouting. You can be firm with them by calmly explaning your situation or expressing your disapointment. But second you start shouting you've lost the argument and probably lost that customer for life. He may have good reason to not pay you before the job is done, maybe he's been burned before and is determined not to get burned again. If you didn't want the inconvenience of going back during rush hour, perhaps you could have offered him the chance to mail you a check. I rarely get paid immediately upon completion. I send a bill and they send a check. Sometimes I get paid within a few days and sometimes it takes a few weeks. I know it's tough living paycheck to paycheck but you need to have some operating capital to get you through those times.

daArch

Rocco,

I hear you. I wasn't there to feel the bad feelings (intuitions) you were getting, so I can't comment on those.

BUT, shouting matches are never good. He MAY have been (or not) a real skum bag just trying to get you into an unpleasant situation, which he did. As the old saying goes, "when you mud wrestle with a pig, the pig loves it and you get dirty"

In the future, when payment is due upon completion, take the final invoice with you PLUS an SASE. When customer says he/she is "unable" to be there when you leave, say , "No problem, here's the invoice with a self addressed stamped envelope, that way I will receive payment day after tomorrow". And obviously if you do NOT receive payment, show up on the site BEFORE work (let's say around 5:00 AM ) and remind them you are due a check.

personally, I am superstitious about receiving payment for a small job prior to completion (I AM weird). I tell them I'll email a pdf and make some "humorous" comment that I'm not worried as I know where they live

Good luck. Hope you can avoid that situation in the future.

__________________
Active member, National Guild of Professional Paperhangers (NGPP)

Wallcovering Installations by Bill Archibald|paperhanger|Eastern Mass|Greater Boston Area

DeanV

I almost never get paid on completion. My standard billing procedure is that I send them bill for the total amount when the job is complete, for repaint work. If I get paid on completion it is usually because the customers asks to pay right then. I usually put a due date of 2 weeks past the job completion date for the payment to be due. The only time I vary this is for jobs that take a month or more (I might for a two week long job also, but when I get big job where I need the cash flow, it always seems like the 1-2 month kind).

I do have one GC who is seriously overdue (81 days on $2,158) but I am not sweating it yet. Other than that, I have only had to call someone once who had not paid within the time frame I specified and they got the check out that day.

PrecisionFloors

__________________
Precision Flooring
Hampton, VA (757) 256-0848
Tile, Hardwood, Laminate, and Resilients
Installation, Sales & Repair - "We do it right the FIRST time"

HUDSONVALLEYEXT

You should not expect this guy to leave a check before he has seen the work complete. I realize it sucks having to go back but thats part of the business man kinda like wasting your time on waste of time estimates. Just part of the contracting game to get the $$$

rocco

I did apologize before I ever left his house. He was far more obnoxious then I was. As I stated i was quite calm while he was shouting at me. I just was backed into a corner and had to defend myself. He did love my work and I did get a 10% down payment (Calif law ) so I was waiting on 90%. I even gave him a 3rd coat on a wall for free. I was not an ass as somebody else so ignorantly put it.

I fully agree shouting gets bad results, thus I apologized. I can be open minded enough to see his point of view, I can even agree with it, it was my own fault for not having plan B. I don't think there was anything wrong with me asking for a check (since he wasn't going to be there for the final inspection ) my mistake was not having a back up plan and, oh yeah, shouting. I am going to bring an invoice and maybe also state payment due at end of last business day. Thanks for your input.

Celtic

get me up to speed here...
Ca. laws says you can only get a 10% down payment, then the balance(90%) at "completion"?

__________________

jensenconstruction

CA law states that you can only get 10% down up to a maximum down payment of $1000. You can structure the rest in progress payments; however no payment ( excluding down payment) is permitted to exceed the value of the work completed.

This make it tough on the small guys, and there are stiff penalties including license suspension for violating this provision. That being said the majority of small contractors do not follow the law. I'm constantly told by customer that the other contractor I was bidding against asked for larger amounts down.

This is all the result of unscrupulous contractors asking for large down payments and then disappearing.
This also only applies only to residential work. There are no such restriction for commercial work.

__________________
Jensen Construction & Painting
San Francisco Bay area Remodeling
Bay area Painting

Chris Johnson

Yea, 10% or $ 1000.00 whichever is less, mind you we have this fee we contractors here call 'mobilization' and the day I mobilize my ass to the project the customers check book comes out and we start, than progress draws. The day I finish I have the mandatory 10% to collect and thats it.

__________________
Chris

oldgoat

Actually I think that it would have been better to make the trip back at 5:00. I think he has the right to look everything over and make sure that it is completed in his view also. Like was said before maybe he has been burned before and maybe he doesn't like paying before a job is done any more than you like going back for payment.
I know for me the last job I had contracted it was broke into 1/3 payments at points of completion. When the job was done we walked through it to check off everything being done. However since the electrician went through him I waited until it had passed final inspection before paying. Up until then I had paid on the spot as agreed.

welovepainting

California law is 10% down and 90% upon competetion? ouch that sux...

George Z

I don't think so.
You guys may be ok chasing payments but I am not.
Who would pay for this extra time of coming back?
Funny we never have this problem (never).

"Customer has to make himself available at completion, to sign completion form.
An additional trip by contractor will necessitate an extra charge."

Better yet, accept credit cards!

__________________
Toronto Painters Commercial Painting Commercial Painting Toronto Toronto Office Painters
Painting Toronto Blog

Brian

I agree with George.

On this job, an hour before completion would have represented less than 5% of the job. By that point the customer should have had a pretty good idea if he was happy or not.

Brian Phillips

__________________
Houston Painters
Houston Radiant Barriers