JumboJack

Being a GC that does not paint unless it's an emergency (and how many painting emergency's come up?) I leave the painting to the pro's.

Having said that I have no idea what makes a paint good or bad.
The reason I ask this is that I have a buddy that swears by consumer
reports.And I am sure we all know that Behr paint is always at the top of their reports.
And I also know that most paint pro's hate Behr.
Soooo..Why do HO's/consumers like it and pro's hate it?

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Mr. Mike

Milwaukee's best light is at the top of consumer reports also. Everything plays a part on the consumer reports like convenience of being able to go buy a gallon of paint they recommend everywhere has a home depot. Behr does suck rocks, I have only had one BBB complaint in 12 years and it was a job they bought the paint and provided behr I will never use again.

Forget about customer service from behr 1-800-joke-ing

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ModernStyle

Hey, how exactly is a rainbow made?
How exactly does the sun set?
How exactly does the posi-trac
rear end on a Plymouth work?
-It just does.
-It just does.

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JumboJack

My buddy is an engineer. "It just does".Wont help me convince him...

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

ModernStyle

Tell him to paint his house with it, within a year he will accept "it just does"

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JumboJack

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

JumboJack

He is getting ready to have his interior painted.I was trying to warn him that my fellow tradesmen think that Behr paint sucks...Was looking for the reasons why.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

ModernStyle

I dont have alot of experience with it actually, I have heard alot of guys who I trust tell me to avoid it so I do. If he is painting it himself then tell him to go for it, most HO's wouldnt know the difference between quality materials and junk, they dont do it often enough to make the call.
I have only used Behr paint once, so far it has held up pretty good, but I dont plan on using it again.
My main problem with paint from the big box stores is that, how qualified is the guy mixing my paint and recomending products. Was he chasing carts in the parking lot last week ? Has he ever actually applied any of the paint he sells ?
My other problem would be a warranty issue, I can go to my paint store with a problem and they will back me up if it involves their products, I doubt HD or Lowes will do the same.
There is also the issue of appearance, my customers expect me to have all kinds of trade secrets and special products that professionals use, they dont want to see me use something that they could get themselves the next time they are buying a new garden hose.

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Leo G

The opinion of many, many professional painters on here say that Baer paint sucks. Isn't that good enough for him? Why would so many pros claim this if it wasn't at least partially true. Why does he need specifications? I have heard enough bad claims about it here and elsewhere. You won't catch me using it. I trust the pros here to usually guide you in the right direction. The only thing that doesn't suck is price and convenience. Everything else I have heard about it is not very good. If he wants proof have him paint his house with it. A big long job. And when it fails prematurely or needs three coats to cover, he will understand. The specs that any manufacturer give will make their product shine.

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Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON. http://lrgwood.com

Mike Finley

It's very easy to find out. Get behind a roller. Paint a room with Behr and then paint another room with a high quality paint from BM or SW and you'll never buy Behr again.

One of the more obvious things that makes a paint good or bad is coverage, then a bit less obvious, how it cuts in, how it holds a wet edge, then far less obvious but much more important to a professional painter painting everyday, is the smaller nuances of it, how it lays down, how well you can cut straight lines with it....

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Control your own destiny or someone else will!

JumboJack

He is an engineer.The guy spent two weeks researching golf clubs before he bought them..He is a 30 handicap...

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

Leo G

Not my problem

But it will be his. Tell him that the research has been done here. And the conclusion is the paint is not the best (at all). This was extensive field testing by professionals who paint every day. How much more proof does he want. Tell him to ask Baer and SW and BM do divulge their secret formulas to him and then he can do a chemical analysis of the brands and come to his own conclusions. Or just be smart and listen to what others, with experience, have said. Or just slap him with a Purdy 4" brush and dump a can of Baer on his head and walk away saying have fun, we told you what you want to know but you won't listen. do what you want and learn yourself.

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tkle

Walmart paint lays down easier and has better coverage. I've since moved up to Dunn Edwards and haven't looked back.Better paint has more solids in it and keeps it's color better.

Steve Richards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Richards
What is it in the Behr paint formulation that makes it so frustrating to use?
*******************************
Slickshift:

I don't know
I never felt it was worth my time to find out exactly
It's not like HD is going to have a website devoted why Behr can be hard to use, or be forthcoming with the formulation of their paint
I do know it was formulated to meet certain Target HD Customer Values/Points
Maybe that will help...

1) It has to look like the chip while wet and in the can
Stupid as this sounds, it's true
Think of the average HD customer opening up the can of paint at home and seeing it a shade off...they will freak...they will have returns up the ying/yang

HD knows it will be not be sold by knowledgeable paint people and they won't take the time-nor does HD want them to take the time-to educate the customers
HD only wants them to get as much product as possible out the door as fast as possible

2) It has to "cover/hide"
Now, this has different meanings to the average HD customer than to a professional painter (they want it to hide the dirt they aren't cleaning off because they are painting...ya know, why clean it if we are painting anyway), but sufficed to say that this criteria means a crap load of... (I couldn't tell you what they use for sure, I suppose it's titanium dioxide), and that affect the pigments and other qualities of the paints

Oddly enough, one of the things this affects adversely is "hiding" in certain colors
I can't say why, I can only say that everything is a compromise, and if you load up on one corner, the other corners are affected

3) It has to dry quickly
This is at the expense of pretty much anything like leveling, lap marks, roller marks, picture framing/hat-banding...none of those things are important to their average HD paint customer

4) It has to be cheap enough so HD can charge what there average customers perceive as "a good price", yet still maintain a high profit margin (HD does not make money on "volume" alone, as they allow their customers to believe)
This means LOTS of fillers
Again, I couldn't tell you exactly what, I can only make an educated guess it's cheap clay
Obviously this also affect the paint qualities we appreciate

This all fits into HD CPV approach to selling stuff
Customer Perceived Value
They feel their average customer won't perceive the value of maintaining a wet edge, lack of roller/lap marks or hat-banding, leveling characteristics, or resistance to burnishing...etc...etc...

They will want an inexpensive paint that hides well and dries quickly, and looks the same wet and in the can as it does on the chip

They do not perceive value to their time or effort
As un-enlightened DIYers (behr-using that is), they expect it to take time and to effort...and to suck...
So as long as it doesn't take three weeks to paint the living room, and doesn't suck enough for them to off themselves (now, remember, they don't know it's not supposed to be that bad), they are happy customers

There ya go there's more I'm sure
But basically you have a paint that meets specific desires of the marketing dept. for a product aimed at un-educated occasional painting DIYers that don't know how to paint or what paint should do or look like when finished, but know they want it to dry fast and hide the dirt they are painting over, and it better look like the chip when it's wet and in the can. [/Slickshift]

TxElectrician

I think what steve is trying to say is "it sucks".

Kuba

Well, lets stick to the basics first of all...

Lets talk about latex... Higher quality latex has a higher solids and resin base.

When you apply a low quality vs high quality paint.. They go on wet at the same mil, but when they dry - the lower quality paint that has more solvents shrinks far more than the higher quality.. See, the higher quality paints have lower solvents too.. When they evaporate it make a world of difference.. high quality = higher solids and resin base lower solvents.. Lower quality has higher solvents lower solids and resin.

The coat is simply thicker after it dries..... Ultimately, requireing more applications of the lower quality paint and increase of labor. The higher quality saves you money + time + has a higher durability rating. That is the most important.

Kuba

I guess i could have just said lowr quality paints are watered down

wish it would stop raining

world llc

it's like comparing orange juice to orange drink (tang)
some people absolutely love tang... cheap, sugary, liquid refreshment...
however it lacks all property's of the real deal

although behr isn't that extreme of an example, you could compare it as concentrated v.s. fresh squeezed...

behr applies weak, dries weak, and is not made of the best configurations of ingrediants...

for the price per gallon there is far superior paint on the market especially from SW

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DavidC

To repeat myself, I am not a professional painter but I play one occasionally as a GC remodeler.

Once, as a matter of convenience, (SW is across town and we were headed the other way) I bought Be*r paint for a ceiling. I can't tell you why but here's the what.

We normally paint 1 coat of primer and 2 of finish. We normally have very good results (with Sherwin-Williams). With the Be*r it took 3 coats of finish and still wasn't as good as our normal results. It was more like painting with Ace or any other hardware store brand rather than a good, quality paint.

After using the hardware brands for years and switching to SW I noticed 2 things right away. First was better hideability. (technical term) I mean the old colors just covered quicker with no bleed through, or at least very little and the 2nd coat takes care of that.

2nd, and maybe most important, less drag on the brush. Might seem minor to a HO but by the end of the day it was important to me. Very important.

My suggestion is skip HD and head to SW.

Good Luck
Dave

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OK, rant if you must. For the love of Pete, use paragraphs and spell check.

Leo G

There ya have it.


slickshift

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