Ask Mike The Painter About Closing Anything.

Steve Richards

BTW
was my favorite line in the whole thread.

I'm gonna put Chris on my "buddy list", in hope that he's always that funny.

bobbyacro

Before Wise Painter gets all over me, I put an add on craigslist and am now a pro. So lay off......

I am just starting out in painting but I have been in sales for the last 6 years. 3 withh ATT wireless B2B communications/data, and three selling Lexus/Toyotas. I worked with a guy at Lexus/Toyota that had the same attitude as Mr.Mike and did pretty well, sometimes the top sales person of the month. The down fall is that at 57 years old hes working as hard as he was when he was 27. The work smarter ratio never overcame the weight of his work harder ratio because he "slayed" clients and didnt build long lasting relationships. The people who are really good at sales learn to use their customers to get them their next job.

Selling painting jobs is no different than selling cars. Cars might be more difficult, everyone hates you, negotiating is the nations past time plus it wasnt a ford dealership were you get a BOGO. Though im new to the painting biz, I do have a lot of experience selling. What I do works for me, but it probably wont work for you.

People want to buy, Mr. Mike, they dont want to be sold something. You offering a discount to "buy now" means your product is over priced and the value of it to me (the customer) is very little. If you have 10% to take off today, what else are you hiding? Your trust is lost and you will never get it back. Your story about grabing the bid back from the customer and lecturing him is a sure fire way to have that potential sale tell every single person he knows what a jerk you are, and so on, and so on. You gain control in a sales call by knowing your product, inside and out, not by using tactics. Most people know the answers to the questions they ask you but they ask to probe your honesty.

The internet has exposed all sales people in almost every aspect. Dont underestimate the ability of a HO to research on the net. Whether they find false information or not is irrelevant, it is now their perception, thus reality. Kelly Blue Book, Edmunds, all that stuffs a joke and is a national average and has no bearing on the actual cash value of a vehicle in your region of the country, same with painting. I would suggest pretending to be the HO and google "average painting rates". Dont ever look like a deer in headlights or your done.

To sum it up, becoming your customers friend and advisor is the best way to sell. You may not get a false commitment today but you will get a good customer who will hand you many jobs through referels. Mr. Mike is great at asking for the sale, and very few people do it, difference between winners and losers in a nut shell. 80% closing ratio is unreal though, for any field.

Mr. Mike

Buying a car is totally different than buying a service. People do need to be sold in remodeling.

Commodities and services, forgive me but I think they are much different.

Car: When I buy a car, It makes no difference to me what car lot is selling it and chances are I will buy from the 3rd or 4th car lot I go to so I can have some negotiation power. I have been buying new cars for the last 12 years and pretty much that is what happened all 6 times.

People: Ever wonder why people are willing to pay up to twice as much for one company to do a job than another, Value exceeds price. I don't buy that discounts are bad, I am able to show my customers the value of me discounting the job. I will say something like, you know folks I get up everyday and do estimates all day, when I get up in the morning I ask myself how I can make today the day that I earn your business, and well folks I have a 10% discount for you. If your happy with this price here and everything I have showed you we can take off this 10% and sign you up today.

Service: I am hoping I can call the first person and they can do everything that we need done.

People being sold: I think they need to be sold, also people may spread bad words about a salesman that leaves however how valuable is the referral when they say you are a great salesman. The lady two nights ago said after she signed the contract "I knew I was in trouble when I seen you pull up in that nice car" I replied you feel much better now that you called me?

Nothing peas me off more than a to busy to sale salesperson, or one that won't sale. The better I get at selling the more I expect from someone selling me something.


When referals call me I close over 90% of those on a one call and everyone should.

__________________
Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

chris n

"I knew I was in trouble when I seen you pull up in that nice car"

Nice grammer

Mr. Mike

Buying a car is different than buying a service like I said a couple posts ago, but I will agree that the selling method is the same. People buy from people they like but they don't buy from everyone they like for many reasons. I'd say the main reason is that person never asks for the order once let alone more than 6 times, I know for some of you it is hard to believe that I am a very likable person and a professional visitor that is what gives me the momentum to close these jobs.

__________________
Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

bobbyacro

I know the two goods are different, im just explaining that sales is sales, just know your product. Why do you buy from the 3rd or 4th place you go to everytime you buy a new car? Did you not build a relationship with a dealership or sales person? Wouldnt finding someone you trust save you a lot of time? Thought the first two or three places were fast talking you into a vehicle that you didnt feel was the best deal?

If your method works for you then thats awesome and I hope you make a great living. I just cant believe a 80% close ratio is an accurate number. Seems like you talk too much about what you do and listen less to the people you are selling to. Think about any purchase you make, when was the last time someone sold it to you Vs. you buying it. You gather information and make your own informed decision on what works best for you.

Discounts can be a powerful sales tool if used correctly. If you put the pressure on to "buy today" by using a discount, you may get a intial yes but very seldom will that deal end up going through 100%.

Dont take this as a knock on you. I have seen many different sales people do very well using all types of styles. Just offering a different side. As long as you are confident and ASK FOR THE SALE, you will be alright.

Mr. Mike

Bobby you are right on with everything, and yes a sale is a sale. There is many ways to close and I like how you say just ask for the order, Our kind don't ask for the order hardly ever.

The discount for signing today is worth more than 10%, and you say people may cancel, I do know like in the window world where people are financing the work and their financing does not go through they have to cancel, but in painting I have only had a couple people cancel and they were all pre one call closing.


I prefer to be sold rather than to buy. I expect everyone to be selling to me, for example I like when the lady at Mc D's says would you like to make that a meal, or would you like an ice cream with your order. I may not buy it but how many yes's do they get for asking that all day, alot more than they would get by not asking. I am asking for my customers business today.

__________________
Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

bobbyacro

Thats asking for the sale, she did not tell you how the ice cream will be of a benefit to you, its a simple question. When using your sales method, you must be at the top of the class to make it work. You can cross a fine line and come off as too busy for them or sarcastic and reading a script. Seeming too busy is a bit of catch 22, people want to do business with someone who is busy. Most people are followers and want to do what others are doing, "I gotta get in on this" mentallity.

I played cards for a living for 2 years, but got sick of driving to AC (3-4 hours) to work. Gambling was invaluable, teaching me how to read what a person is really saying. Body language is just as important as listening to what a customer is saying, maybe more important due to fact that the HO does not know what they exactly need.

I prefer a soft sale where I would present all information to someone, let them show me the direction they want to go and confirm the choice as excellent. You can still offer your "expert opinion", offer a few ideas, or to help them avoid problems in the future.

An example of the MC D's lady selling you ice cream;
MC D's lady, "would you like an ice cream with that?"

You, "No, thank you."

Mc D's Lady "Are you sure because its really hot out there(fake laugh)."

You, "It is hot but im fine with just the meal."

MC d's Lady, "I really want to earn your buisness. If I gave you 15% off would that help to change your mind and do more buisness with us?"

You, "I dont want ice cream, im lactose intolerant and it would put me in too much pain. Please just give me my f'ing food."

Mc D's Lady, "Well I cant guarantee this price on the ice cream tomorrow"

You bought your food this time but I guarantee that you wont go back to that location again. How much would it piss you off to have someone speak to you like that and not listen to a word you are saying, just pushing their own agenda?

I think you confused a customer "buying" something with a customer being given no direction, advice or sense of importance. The world changes and selling is not what it once was, people have just as many sources of information as you do. 20 years ago people couldnt get on the internet and research everything, creating tons of more objections for sales people to overcome. Nothing is hidden anymore and the job of a sales person has evolved to be more of a guide.

Mr. Mike

I don't like the excuse 20 years ago because of the internet, that's an excuse not to get out and sale. I live in a large city and most everyone looking for a painter is looking for them online.

I was told when I started using these methods that they were 20 years out dated, I am glad I did not listen and give it up.

__________________
Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

Mr. Mike

That seems to be an assumptive with a twist of an alternative close, very bold and very affective. Soft sale yes and I use this on every lead just about, I don't stop there if it does not get a signature though.

__________________
Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

bobbyacro

Im not bringing up excuses. By your logic, every company that changes anything, ever, is coming up with an excuse. You cant ignore the fact that people have loads of more information than they did 20 years ago, to do so would just be wrong. Its only something the sales person needs to be aware of and prepare for. You dont have to take drastic measures, just recognize it and be prepared when a potential sale brings it up. If the HO says, "Well I researched online and found out that your overcharging me by about 40% for this job." What would your response be? If you dont have an idea on how to handle this situation then you end up telling the HO, in so many words, that
1. Theyre wrong.
2. They cant research correctly
3. They wasted their time
all things no one wants to hear. When you go to get one of your new cars every few years do you research the internet (KBB, Edmunds, NADA) to put a value on your car? My money bets you do. Funny thing is that the value of your car (ACV) is usally not even close to what the internet tells you. You ommit facts about the condition of the car, scratches, worn tires, inpsection is almost up and that devalues it even more as a trade. Much like a home owner ommiting prep work as an included cost in their price. None of it matters because it is now their reality. Im just curious how you handle the objection of,
"I reseached and found youre charging me too much, way too much."

Again, im not knocking you, youre a very determined guy and thats all you need to get through life selling. Just good ole fashioned debating. Never ignore what someone is telling you, you can always learn something. You need to be honest with your self, and us (would be nice), and tell us your real close percentage.

Mr. Mike

Bobby,
I appreciate the talk here and I see every angle and side of every post in this thread, I can agree on everything in one way or another.


Closing percentages:

Leads to some of you is every time the phone or email pops, I know that because I have read many of these posts.

Leads to me is every person that calls and I set up an appointment with that makes it over 15 minutes with me. On those I have a real closing ratio of 80%, If I took into consideration every call or email I get and the appointments that throw me out or I decide to leave in the first 15 minutes I would be at 56% and that is still a lot considering the average for most of these painters we talk to is less than 30%. However the strongest part of my close is setting up a closing situation for when I get to the appointment.

If you did some internet research like I have about closing service jobs like the painting that I offer, you will find that you can easily achieve a 60% closing ratio on properly set up leads.

I do know that 20% of all salespeople close 80% of all things sold and with that in mind closing twice the norm is possible with just some dedication and 3 times the norm is very possible for some of us.


I need to admit, I have became better at closing since we started this thread. Thanks to everyone that participated. I will also admit that the OP is very misleading, I started this thread to become better at closing myself. Debating these things keeps me sharp on my feet, I hate to catch a new objection from a homeowner when I can just collect some in here and work it around, there has been many great points brought up in here from me and everyone that posted. I have also just created the largest thread on any painting forum with just one more post.

__________________
Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

bobbyacro

Why not just make your definition of a lead anyone who buys your service? Then you go from 80% to 100%.

Kayb2

#260


this is some funny stuff


that's my second post for nthose who count

Mr. Mike

If I was at 100% I would not be on here trying to get better. I have to leave some challenge for myself or I'd be on here spamming to sale books and stuff.

__________________
Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

Soloplayer

I think you have to determine when you are at your best.

Are you an early bird ? or does it take you awhile to get going?

Personally I am an early bird, I schedule my appointments between 10am -12pm, before to many distractions have developed in the clients day.

I prefer to be the first contractor to estimate the job, for many reasons.


Good luck !

Mr. Mike

Solo,

When you say you prefer to be the first, do you mean you don't ever sign them up on the first visit?

I happen to be the first painter and last painter on many of my estimates, because of my online local dominance here in Louisville.

__________________
Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville