For all you Res Repaint guys.... - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

NAV · 11-19-2008, 01:59 PM

This pertains to Exterior Residential Repaint guys in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Indiana, and possibly Illinois.

The new VOC regulations that are going to take affect on 1/1/09 for some of you and 1/1/10 for the rest.

there will not be an oil based exterior house paint. Sherwin-Williams said the alternative is their Gloss Duration....WOW, that will raise the price. Plus you have to add in the new prep so that you can paint that latex over the 10 coats of oil that are on there.

there will be no oil based interior wall and trim paints. good luck with that one when you bid to an old lady that loves Benny Moore Satin Impervo.

There will be no more oil based stains. they want you to use latex.

There will be no more Sanding Sealer. Now it will take an extra day to finish that new wood trim.

There will be no more oderless oil primers, quick dry primers, Kem Kromic, Kills oil, zinzer oil, or any other product like that. BIN will be avaliable but only if you are using it for stain blocking (fire, water, ink)

There will be no more Industrial Enamil. that really hurts me.

the list goes on and on. The solution is to make paints with more high solids. So, it will cost us more. They say you can apply the material much thinner but tell that to a $15 an hour guy rolling out 10,000 square feet of walls.....he isnt using a mill guage.

Not all is lost. any material that is packaged in a quart size can does not have to meet the new AIM VOC regulations, same goes for aerosol. It will be illeagal to empty quart cans into gallon cans but it will help with oil based stain matching.

the fines in New York are $15,000.00 for first offense and in California $25,000.00 for the first offense. Ohio, where i am, has not came out with the penalties or how they plan on enforcing the law yet. Funny, I don't remember voting on that law.

one last thing. the painting industry accounts for 2% of the VOCs released into the air. I guess every little bit helps?

WisePainter · 11-19-2008, 06:26 PM

dammit.

Frankawitz · 11-20-2008, 09:28 AM

This is nothing new the EPA put Laws into affect back in September of 1999. they out lawed Acetone the main ingredient for all oil base products. as for latex paints I tell people they will look at painting every 5 to7 years, also paint prices increase almost every January and June by 1 to 3% that's what my guys at the Benjamin store I shop at. so look at it this way more work. yeah the prices are going to be hard for people to swallow but hey what can the do.

Steve Richards · 11-20-2008, 09:40 AM

What's the fine for using it anyway?

I can't live without oil-based products (especially primers)...sorry

KES · 11-21-2008, 01:18 AM

Well this is great. Just tonight I was repainting my trim in my house and it is oil-based paint. I have not painted with it much, but it covered SOOOOOOOOOOO well. I thought, I am going on CT tonight and look up to see if paint guys use oil base on interior walls and BAM! The second thread I pull up on painting is this one. So I guess my question is irrevalent.

I will not steal the thread, but I will ask my two questions anyway.

Peter

NAV · 11-21-2008, 09:14 AM

acetone is one of the 3 solvents that there will be no regulations on when it is sold by itself. but if you add it to paint you can not raise the VOC over the regulated amount or you can be fined if you get cought.

they will still sell oil interior trim paint in quarts but it will be illegal to put them into gallons. i guess the smaller containers are for touchups only.

if you don't live in the states listed in my first post the laws will not apply to you. BUT, i hear there will be federal regulations coming out and taking effect in 2010. i don't know how similar they will be but whatever regulations are more strict will supersede the other.

I still dont know how they will inforce the regulations, especially with residental painters.

Dorman Painting · 11-21-2008, 07:17 PM

This is ridiculous IMO, if it were actually going to help the environment I could possibly understand it. But outlawing oil based paints isn't going to help the environment or what ever other reasons they're outlawing it.

This reminds me of the county in which I reside in Southern Indiana. I live in Clark County, and my county for fifteen years had a standard vehicle emisions testing. You had to take your car into a government garage once every two years and get it tested. They were testing for pollutants like carbons etc. that the vehicle emitted into the air. If it couldn't pass the test, you had to go find a mechanic and pay him to fix where it would pass. This was done for the ozone layer, there were only five counties in the whole state of Indiana that participated. It was a joke, we weren't helping the ozone layer, we were putting money in the local governments pocket. This paint thing is the same crap, it stands to reason that this won't help the environment much.

Steve Richards · 11-22-2008, 11:57 AM

I can see how it's harmful to the environment..and our health.

But it's a necessary evil, IMHO

I'd like to know what water-base product can seal, say... a water/smoke stain....in 1 coat.

How about tannin oil?

Gotta have oil based primers.

If NAV's right, and they can only sell quarts, I could live with that.

NAV · 11-24-2008, 08:08 AM

Some specialty primers will still be available, like BIN for smoke damage. there are no latex products that can do what an oil based can.

i heard that Shellac is made from some crazy beetle juice. anyone else ever hear that?

MALCO.New.York · 11-24-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAV

I heard that Shellac is made from some crazy beetle juice. anyone else ever hear that?

Yes! And no!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac

DeanV · 11-24-2008, 11:24 AM

For oil stains, are you referring to interior wood stains that are clear coated or exterior oil stains for cedar siding, decks, etc.?

Either way bad news, the only question is how bad.

eastend · 11-24-2008, 01:08 PM

shellac is made from the secretions of the Lac bug. mostly found in Asia and
India.

NAV · 11-25-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanV

For oil stains, are you referring to interior wood stains that are clear coated or exterior oil stains for cedar siding, decks, etc.?

Either way bad news, the only question is how bad.

it is for all stains. the VOCs are too high in the exterior solid color oil too. I will try to find a website that has all of the regulations on it. i went to a class last week (offered by SW).

at least you will still get interior stain in quarts.

Frankawitz · 11-26-2008, 07:46 AM

Dorman, You hit the nail on the head, Government getting their hand in every contractors pocket, it's all about Fines and Fees,

capital city · 11-26-2008, 07:08 PM

From what I understand almost all primers will still be available. As far as exterior painting I cant understand what everyones problem is. SW Duration will outlast any oil based product. Oil base cannot expand and contract like Duration and other similiar products and cracks and pops right off the siding here in KY. I havent used oil outside for 5 years except for stains or priming windows before glazing as that is what most glazing products spec for. Charlie