2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?

 
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Old 11-30-2006, 10:26 AM   #1
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2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


Some of the new construction painters in my area (Mississauga, Ontario, Canada) use two coats of white primer on new construction drywall ceilings rather than one coat primer + 2 coats of paint. So they use primer rather than paint.

My client, as a way to keep costs down, wants me to paint their drywall ceiling with 1 coat primer and 1 coat white paint.

So my question for you is what is the problem with using 2 coats of white primer on a new construction ceiling???

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Old 11-30-2006, 11:26 AM   #2
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


Primer doesn't normally cover as well as paint. It's good for sealing and creating a uniform surface for later painting, but not for covering. Even the "stain killing" primers will usually show a dark stain through the primer but it creates a new surface for paint to go over and then the stain won't bleed through the primer into the paint.

I had a recent ceiling paint job where the owner did the first job himself and he was told to just use Kilz II and do two coats. It looked like crap and I could see the joint seams through the primer.


Last edited by LennyV-NHSNOLA; 11-30-2006 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 11-30-2006, 12:30 PM   #3
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


If you have access to Pittsburgh Paints their Wall Supreme Flat is self priming over bare wallboard and you don't have to worry about coverage, or having only primer, yellow over time.
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Old 11-30-2006, 01:42 PM   #4
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


Even if the primer can be applied so that it looks good, it won't stay that way. The seams and joints will show through pretty soon. Primer is not intended to have a very good "finish" surface. Its' just there to seal and bond the finish paint.
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:34 PM   #5
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


we've hit on this a lot, but yeah...primer, primes-finish paint, finishes

you can get away with the coverage, but since there is no finish paint, you'll notice over time and the primer will fail in different ways

why not go with the 1 coat of primer and 1 coat of finish--that's what I always do (on the ceiling) if it's new. The cost will be minimal, since they make contractor grade paints. The time would be the same too. But the peace of mind is the most important thing
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Old 11-30-2006, 04:07 PM   #6
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


I saw a guy get pro-mar 400, cut it almost in half and spray it as a primer. Kind of a mess, as he used duct tape to plastic the windows etc, and all that water was making the duct tape come off.
Full strenght for the top coat. S/W claims that the pro-mar line is self priming. It's a cheap way to go. I would rather use this method than just leaving primer as the top coat. In reality though, I've never done it either way.
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Old 11-30-2006, 07:38 PM   #7
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


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Originally Posted by Paintguy26 View Post
we've hit on this a lot, but yeah...primer, primes-finish paint, finishes

you can get away with the coverage, but since there is no finish paint, you'll notice over time and the primer will fail in different ways

why not go with the 1 coat of primer and 1 coat of finish--that's what I always do (on the ceiling) if it's new. The cost will be minimal, since they make contractor grade paints. The time would be the same too. But the peace of mind is the most important thing
Good suggestion....this is what I was going to do.
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Old 11-30-2006, 08:42 PM   #8
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


To tell the truth.. in the 7 states i've worked in on the east coast... everyone buys ceiling white flat from whatever store is close and sprays (1) one coat on the ceilings. Period. Never actually worked another mans job in 20 years that actually primed ceilings and two coated em.
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Old 11-30-2006, 09:03 PM   #9
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


brush, I'm with you! I always 1 coat ceilings. Look great. I have been back to houses I've painted 10 years ago and still look good to me. Hell, there are contractors around here that don't even paint the ceilings. Just leave them stomped. There are builders around that like me because I put 1 coat on them.
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Old 11-30-2006, 09:05 PM   #10
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


That is one coat on stomped ceilings though. Smooth is a different story. Even orange peel is hard to get away with one coat.
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Old 11-30-2006, 10:01 PM   #11
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


I don't agree with leaving just primer on anything. I don't like doing one coat on anything but ceilings. If there is a place to do only one coat, a ceiling is it. However, I do a primer and one finish on ceilings in new construction or previously un-painted.

Ceiling paint is not subject to the abuse of wall or trim paints, and the only purpose of it in most cases is to make the ceiling appear fresh and bright. Unless you are doing something with colors or a sheen, a ceiling isn't the best place to have multiple heavy coats, especially in the case of roof leaks or popcorn/poorly applied textures because the more weight in layers of paint, the better the chance of catastrophic failure should something go wrong in the future.

Bathroom and kitchen ceilings, I recommend a semi-gloss paint (or a low sheen at least) and two coats for better protection against moisture problems from the inside.
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Old 12-01-2006, 12:54 AM   #12
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


In my experience all primers don't cover well.

Also the stuff labeled "ceiling paint" doesn't cover well either.


I would go with 2 coats of a flat wall paint.

Or if its a new ceiling 1 coat of 'high hiding primer' and 1 coat of the flat wall white because the primer will seal and keep the paint from bleeding into the drywall leaving a thinner film, and uneven coverage.

Last edited by metomeya; 12-01-2006 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:20 PM   #13
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeebo View Post
Some of the new construction painters in my area (Mississauga, Ontario, Canada) use two coats of white primer on new construction drywall ceilings rather than one coat primer + 2 coats of paint. So they use primer rather than paint.

My client, as a way to keep costs down, wants me to paint their drywall ceiling with 1 coat primer and 1 coat white paint.

So my question for you is what is the problem with using 2 coats of white primer on a new construction ceiling???

Zeebo
If they want cheap my response is "I am not your man" because if they try and get cheap with the paint, which is not near as costly as paint, they are not ideal customers to work for. Just tell them to go get some spray jockey and water paint.
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:35 PM   #14
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeebo View Post
Some of the new construction painters in my area (Mississauga, Ontario, Canada) use two coats of white primer on new construction drywall ceilings rather than one coat primer + 2 coats of paint. So they use primer rather than paint.

My client, as a way to keep costs down, wants me to paint their drywall ceiling with 1 coat primer and 1 coat white paint.

So my question for you is what is the problem with using 2 coats of white primer on a new construction ceiling???

Zeebo
I only contract high end repaints, so this might be out of the park with some clients.
Everything is cut free hand and roll.
On ceilings and walls-BenjaminMoore Regal First coat.
Finish schedule for ceilings.Two coats BenjaminMoore Regal Aquavelvet Eggshell.
Finish Schedule for Walls. Two coats BenjaminMoore Regal Matte
Caulk-BenjaminMoore Moorlastic lifetime Urathane Acrylic sealant.

If you are asking why caulk on repaints. The answer is that I always caulk a bead on edges of trim to walls to give laser line edges as well as recaulking all the window frames to the window returns.

Last edited by 4thGeneration; 12-01-2006 at 06:41 PM. Reason: forgot to add cut and roll only as well as two finish coats on celings and walls
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Old 12-02-2006, 06:58 AM   #15
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


if he wants to go the cheap unproffessional way, just put one thick coat of cheap builders paint spray it, backroll it, spray it again, finished.
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Old 12-02-2006, 11:49 AM   #16
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


Zeebo,
You do not always get good coverage, even with a good primer with one coat. Primer tends to cover good with two coats. One coat paint. Use good materials, better coverage. If you do this work for these people, they are probably not concerned with how their ceiling looks. Some clients do not care. Also, no warranty with this. Not best pratices.
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Old 12-02-2006, 12:44 PM   #17
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


moved into our house up in gaylord mi. and the ceiling was primed only back in 95 still looks great until we painted over it,the primer was devoe 50801 this stuff is the shizzle ! use it alot up here spray on one thick coat and backroll it! looks great for years
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:14 PM   #18
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


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Originally Posted by painterofeveryt View Post
moved into our house up in gaylord mi. and the ceiling was primed only back in 95 still looks great until we painted over it,the primer was devoe 50801 this stuff is the shizzle ! use it alot up here spray on one thick coat and backroll it! looks great for years
I started using Devoe's primers about a year and half ago and let me tell you......I love it! It seriously covers awesome and even for that matter.

If your trying to keep costs down on new drywall ceilings I'd suggest using that Devoe or similar and then a shot of SuperSpec white. I spray them out anyway and it looks nice and even in the end.
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Old 12-17-2006, 08:41 PM   #19
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


The two coats primer on ceilings technique is done for savings in labour and paint. When the house is primed you can recoat the washroom and kitchen ceilings the same day. I'm assuming the rest of the house is stippled/textured ceilings. When you return to finish paint the entire house the tiles and cabinets are usually installed. This saves time not having to cover everything. The coverage is not great with primer, especially watered down. Also, is there not a drywall checkout performed before painting? Sometimes repairs are made to the ceilings and you'll have to touch them up. One coat primer and one coat flat will cover much better and touch up as well. At the end of the day you can hold your head up high knowing you did it right not cutting any corners
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Old 12-19-2006, 09:34 PM   #20
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Re: 2 Coats Of Primer On Ceiling Rather Than Paint?


We use Zinsser Oderless, on ceilings. Two coats is needed and you are left with great coverage and a non-yellowing surface. However this is not an inexpensive approach.

When painting new drywall and we are painting a number of rooms, we use BM's MooreSpec priomer on both walls and ceiling. We then use 2 coats of the specified finish paint.

I really have never found a singe coat of anything to be sufficient

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