2 coats or one coat - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

saucedo80 · 09-01-2006, 12:37 AM

Hello my fellow painters, i have been having a bit of uncertainty. I am a painting contractor and i have just recently started my own buisness. I do mostly all repaints right now. I just hired my cousin to work for me and he was working for a very prestigious painting contractor that does really high end custom painting, I mean "big bucks." He was telling me that they apply two coats on everything even if it already looks good and doesn't need a second coat. My way of doing it is, for exteriors I spray the body and it always covers in one coat(have never sprayed two coats) and for trimwork, if the paint doesn't cover in one coat then i give it two. I know that everybody says that two coats is better than one now is this really true? all the homes I have painted have stayed in good shape and I have not had any callbacks, all satisfied customers. I do make sure and fully prepare the homes before painting.

The way I see it, two coats on every thing automatically doubles my pricing right? I mean you practically paint the house two times and use twice as much paint.

Now say if two coats is better than one, then this frustrates me because i would have to increase my prices dramatically, Most of my customers cosider me a bit high already but always tend to go with my price because they are satisfied customers.

I am afraid that if i increase my prices to do two coats on everything i am going to lose buisness and I can't afford that right now that i am just starting off, especially since right now I don't have the customers that want to pay for that high end painting.

after cafefully examining my situation I have decided that I could do a couple of things: 1. keep my prices that same but pay my employess less(don't want to do that) 2. pay my employees the same and increase my prices (could lose buisness that way) 3. in my written estimates include two prices, one for a one coat application and the other for a two coat application, and let the customer decide what they want and what they can afford.

what do you guys think, any advice would be greatly appreciated

makeover guy · 09-01-2006, 01:18 AM

3 is how I do it.
Anyway if you use good paint and the right spray tip and application technique, you only need one coat. Save the 2 coat option for the homeowner with money to burn.

**slickshift** · 09-01-2006, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saucedo80

I know that everybody says that two coats is better than one now is this really true?

Yes
Though I don't spray exteriors so I can't comment on that, I always bid two coats
Exceptions might be a conscientious customer wanting a maintenance coat or "freshen-up" coat of the same color, and exterior trim when It's Mooreglow or Duration the same color

BMAN · 09-01-2006, 05:57 AM

I always bid two coats. When we spray an exterior we always spray and back roll the first coat and then just a quick second spray to ensure good Mil thickness for longer durabilty.
Interior we always two coat no matter what it looks like the first time. One coat may have "covered" the paint underneath but you don't get true color until that second coat.

saucedo80 · 09-01-2006, 08:55 AM

thank you guys for your replies, my question was geared more for exteriors since for interiors i almost always bid two coats.

So for example say I bid an exterior for a one coat finish at $2,800

Does that mean that a bid for a two coat finish on that same exterior would be $5,600 or in other words double the one coat bid?

Since $2,800 is what I normally bid for a single story 3 bedroom 2 bath home, Im afraid people will not want to pay $5,600 to get their single story home painted.

In my experience i have noticed that most people don't even care about it, as long as it looks good to them its fine. there are only a handful of customers that want two coats on everything and are willing to pay for it, and i just don't have that clientel right now.

Humble Abode · 09-01-2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saucedo80

Since $2,800 is what I normally bid for a single story 3 bedroom 2 bath home, Im afraid people will not want to pay $5,600 to get their single story home painted.

No that's not how I do it. The $2800 takes into consideration your setup and prep for the first coat of paint. When you spray the 2nd topcoat you have no setup and it generally takes you a lot less time.

So where as the first top coat may cost $2800 dollars to spray on, including initial job setup, remove and replace, scrape, sand, spot prime, spray 1st topcoat, travel time, materials, etc. The second spray coat is only that and may cost $300 plus materials.

These numbers are not to be used they are just examples. It sounds like you need to get some definite production numbers in place.

Furthermore the price of the second coat shouldn't matter if you do a good job "selling" quality and durability. Customers are usually willing to pay for quality especially when your bids are competitive.

KellyPainting · 09-01-2006, 06:12 PM

2 coats always 4 me..... same as humble said it. I haven't done one coat on anything in years.

saucedo80 · 09-01-2006, 07:16 PM

thank you guys for all of the input, that makes more sense to me now. Its never too late to learn new things, looks like I will need to change my way of working and try to sell the quality and durability of a paint job.

Brushslingers · 09-01-2006, 07:29 PM

Ahh, they already said anything good.. heh. I normally price second coats at half the original.

HUDSONVALLEYEXT · 09-01-2006, 08:49 PM

Sprayers spray thick you should only need one coat. If you painting trim by brush.... paint it until you can't see the paint under it. Most of the time that is 2 coats right? Its funny when customers think you are gonna spray their house twice around...I sprayed a house today the whole thing and the customer was like your gonna do a second coat right..im thinking yeah ok smoke some more buddy

AAPaint · 09-01-2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUDSONVALLEYEXT

Sprayers spray thick you should only need one coat. If you painting trim by brush.... paint it until you can't see the paint under it. Most of the time that is 2 coats right? Its funny when customers think you are gonna spray their house twice around...I sprayed a house today the whole thing and the customer was like your gonna do a second coat right..im thinking yeah ok smoke some more buddy

This is an area I must beg to differ.....

It doesn't matter how thick a sprayer sprays. There is a specific thickness for each coating you apply recommended by the manufacturer that you should adhere to, and you can't achieve proper dry film thickness in one coat without problems. It's near impossible. Doing one coat is, IMHO, a shortcut. Another thing, it doesn't matter how you apply it, you'll NEVER get full proper coverage without two coats, nor will you get proper color representation either. Granted, there are one coat, same paint, same color, freshen 'er up deals, but that is rare.

As professionals, I feel we should all be pushing two coat jobs so that number one, customers learn that's the right way to do it (you're a pro, they take your word for it) and so that we are all reaping the additional profits.

George Z · 09-01-2006, 09:30 PM

As many coats as customer will authorize and pay for.

HUDSONVALLEYEXT · 09-01-2006, 09:59 PM

Do you guys give prices for 1 and 2 coats in estimates. ?

**slickshift** · 09-01-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUDSONVALLEYEXT

Do you guys give prices for 1 and 2 coats in estimates. ?

No
It's two

...and if for some reason I can be convinced other-wise it voids the workmanship warranty (signed waiver)

**slickshift** · 09-01-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

This is an area I must beg to differ.....

Yes, two coats are always better than one thick coat

Brushslingers · 09-01-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUDSONVALLEYEXT

Do you guys give prices for 1 and 2 coats in estimates. ?

No, my estimates are always two coats, however in some commercial or turnkey situations I will give a freshenup one coat price. For calculations only I charge half of the first coat for the second. More if it requires priming of any kind, which is really a third coat.

AAPaint · 09-01-2006, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift

No
It's two

...and if for some reason I can be convinced other-wise it voids the workmanship warranty (signed waiver)

...and it voids the manufacturers warranty in most cases as well. There are some products that are specified for one coat use, but most interior/exterior paints are not.

Humble Abode · 09-01-2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

There are some products that are specified for one coat use

Yea, stains! lol

saucedo80 · 09-02-2006, 11:39 AM

In terms of getting proper color representation with two coats, i don't agree. Because when you go to the paint store to get a color matched
they match the color then they brush on a "one coat" sample on a piece of cardboard and bam! color is matched exact. Do you guys tell them put two coats on that sample to see what the color is going to look like.

In my experience when i do one coat and then do the second coat the color is always the same i don't care what you guys say i have seen it with my own eyes the only difference is that two coats cover better but the color remains the same.

By the way I work with kelly moore brand paint.

AAPaint · 09-02-2006, 04:25 PM

Well, it's not something imaginary I prommise you that, but it does depend on what colors you're working with sometimes.

Here's a very good example. RED........Paint one coat of red on a white wall. What do you see? The color will vary EVERYWHERE across the wall. Now put on second, and usually a third coat and the color will even out.

This is just an example, but there is a science to paints and their application.....I wonder what the PDCA and other industry standards say about two coats??