Midwestguy954

I want to remodel about a 10 year old single level rural church into a physical therapy type office. Presently the building and wiring is in excellent condition and wired with romex. I'm putting up inside walls and about to wire. Can I continue with romex or is it required to be wired in conduit. I will have a couple of offices and 3-4 rooms for patient visits.Thanks.

neolitic

You do realize that no one can answer you
unless they know where you are?
Witness protection?
Jimmy Hoffa?
Elvis??? That you???

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Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

Celtic

One thing I think we can all agree on is that the romex in a dropped ceiling is a no-no.

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mickeyco

Why don't people fill out the location on their profile.

Use both, that way if the romex isn't allowed you can just tear it out.

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Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

mdshunk

Be advised that any patient care areas (exam and treatment rooms) will absolutely fall under Article 517 of the NEC, and will require you to wire either in HCFC cable or pipe. The wiring for the rest of the structure will be determined by the construction type. This is determined during plan review when you go for your permits and such.

Please read article 517 of the NEC, or you're in for a gigantic boatload of heartache.

Midwestguy954

Good advise. reading now. Thanks

Midwestguy954

I have been reading in 517. I'm wiring a physical care patient exam room. I see that I have to use conduit. Have a question concerning termination of the insulated ground of an IGR. I will be using the IGR in a physical care patient exam room. Is it permissable to terminate the insulated ground to a dedicated circuit outside and overhead the waiting room by a few feet to a 12-2 romex bare ground wire. I would run conduit but it is a long ways to the dist. panel.

Celtic

How would you maintain both EGC and IGC with romex?

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mdshunk

No, you don't have to run conduit. You can use HCFC cable (health care fexible cable) if you want to. It is basicly type AC cable with a ground wire inside, like MC. It has green painted armor. Perhaps you've noticed that at the supply house.

For health care exam rooms, you need a DOUBLE ground path, not an isolated ground. They want the armor of the cable or conduit to be one ground path back to the panel, and the installed grounding conductor to be the other ground path back to the panel. DO NOT USE IG receptacles! Use regular receptacles. They just want a double ground path for assured grounding. With that in mind, you can't tap off existing romex circuits, since they only have one ground. Your only options are the green HCFC cable or pipe and wire from the panel to the exam room(s).

Midwestguy954

ok I understand. I have seen such cable. Thanks!

mdshunk

Just don't let the supply house sell you "isolated ground MC cable", since that's just regular MC cable with two ground conductors (usually one green and one green/yellow stripe). The health care cable is type AC cable (steel armor) and the armor is one ground path. Unlike regular type AC, it has a green insulated ground inside it also (sorta like MC) for the second ground path. Like I said before, 99% of the time it has green painted armor.

For whatever reason, to comply with article 517 requirements, you can't just have two copper conductors for the double ground path. One must be steel armor or a raceway, and one must be a conductor inside it. You can run EMT if you want to, but HCFC cable is way quicker and cheaper than pipe and wire most of the time. Naturally, you could run your home runs in EMT and just branch out of that with HCFC cable if you want to.

Midwestguy954

Have not been on here since estimating this job. I feel I estimated it as it should be using the NEC as a guide and the advice of you other contractors. But did not get the job. Heard thru the grapevine another contractor wired the patient care rooms, "Physical Therapy" with romex and said it was code. I expressed my concern to owner but still did not get the job. I'm new to this contracting. Not as an electrician, but as a electrical contractor. So when some loose some I guess.

Celtic

You my have "lost" the job....but did you lose your shirt?

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cmec

Bid and lost a dental clinic last month job was engineered and stamped but said mc and cr devices were ok, the tss mpb& fixtures and inverter cost more than the low bidder is doing it for. Seems like the same bs goes on everwhere in the country I am waiting for them to start.

Was there a permit and inspection somone needs brought up on charges the electrician and inspector