NEC Double Insulated Luminaires

 
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:55 PM   #1
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NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


Does anyone know where the NEC discusses the use of and/or the wiring of Class II doubled insulated luminaires (equipment/fixtures)?
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Old 04-06-2011, 04:20 PM   #2
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


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Old 04-06-2011, 04:42 PM   #3
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


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Old 04-06-2011, 04:47 PM   #4
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


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Old 04-06-2011, 04:59 PM   #5
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


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Old 04-06-2011, 05:43 PM   #6
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


Quote:
And I don't think you could build a double insulated light.
If they can do it in the UK why can't they do it here?
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Old 04-06-2011, 05:46 PM   #7
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


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Old 04-06-2011, 05:50 PM   #8
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


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Old 04-06-2011, 05:54 PM   #9
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


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Old 04-06-2011, 06:01 PM   #10
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:04 PM   #11
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


From Philips lighting.


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Old 04-06-2011, 06:10 PM   #12
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


There you go, a very good electrical contractor has found you a double insulated light, which since is manufactured by an American company, we can presumed is UL rated.

I was apparently wrong, which I said was quite likely

But you, as the so-called "lightguy" should have been able to google this yourself.

But you seem better at aimless and circular debates

Thanks KGMZ, have fun with this dude.

He's more than a little aggravating
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:36 PM   #13
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


Thank you wingnut for your quick analysis of me!

I know they exist. I am looking for an answer to my question:
Quote:
Does anyone know where the NEC discusses the use of and/or the wiring of Class II doubled insulated luminaires (equipment/fixtures)?
I believe it was you who went off on a tangent arguing that they don't exist.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:42 PM   #14
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


Kgmz,

Do you know if the NEC address the existence and wiring of class II luminaires?
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:36 PM   #15
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


Looks like you're going backwards
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:15 PM   #16
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


Wingnut you've been absolutely no help and if I am going backwards it would definitely be thanks to you.

Quick run down of deleted posts:

Lightguy: Need help with a NEC code question (in regards to double insulated fixtures).

Wingnut: Those don't exist.

Lightguy: They do exist.

Kgmz: Confirms they exist.

Wingnut: I guess they do exist. I hate being told I'm wrong by someone I don't know. I wish I knew what he was talking about, but I don't. I already proved that.

Lightguy: I still need help with my question.

Wingnut: You're going backwards.

(new post)Lightguy: I still need help with my question. I hope some one here can help me.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:23 AM   #17
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


Google it up. I still can't find UL rated double insulated light fixtures.

Double insulated fixtures are made and sold in Europe. I believe that KG removed his post and link because he realized that it referred to luminaries of European design, and marketed solely in Europe.

While I'm not an electrician, I have been around the block a time or two, and I initially spent time in a good faith effort to help you, looking up your question in the NEC . I came to the conclusion that the NEC does not address double insulated luminaries. This coupled with the result of my google search, led me to conclude that these items do not exist in either the NA or the US market. It is my feeling that it may be impossible to manufacture a double insulted light following the present definitions used in the US, to US standards. I told you this, with the caveat that newly designed LED's could easily change this.

You then went on a tear, pasting material from Amazon and others, indicating that you thought I was wrong, and it was very well possible to manufacture these lights to US and UL standards.

And you went on.

And on

And on

About this.

The simple fact is, google searches continue to find no UL double insulated lights. As such, it is my conjecture that there has never been a reason for the NEC to address this item.

It is telling that some of the good electricians on this site such as RS and 480 have not chimed in. They are very knowledgeable. My guess is that they saw your circular arguments and specious pasting and figured to stay away.

Don't blame me, blame yourself dude

Last edited by Anti-wingnut; 04-07-2011 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:02 AM   #18
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Re: NEC Double Insulated Luminaires


Here is the answer I was looking for from NEC 2008: (note exception 3)

250.110 Equipment Fastened in Place or Connected by
Permanent Wiring Methods (Fixed). Exposed non–
current-carrying metal parts of fixed equipment likely to
become energized shall be connected to the equipment
grounding conductor under any of the following conditions:
(1) Where within 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically or 1.5 m (5 ft)
horizontally of ground or grounded metal objects and
subject to contact by persons
(2) Where located in a wet or damp location and not
isolated
(3) Where in electrical contact with metal
(4) Where in a hazardous (classified) location as covered
by Articles 500 through 517
(5) Where supplied by a metal-clad, metal-sheathed, metalraceway, or other wiring method that provides an
equipment ground, except as permitted by 250.86, Exception No. 2, for short sections of metal enclosures
(6) Where equipment operates with any terminal at over
150 volts to ground
Exception No. 1: Metal frames of electrically heated appliances, exempted by special permission, in which case the
frames shall be permanently and effectively insulated from
ground.
Exception No. 2: Distribution apparatus, such as transformer and capacitor cases, mounted on wooden poles, at a
height exceeding 2.5 m (8 ft) above ground or grade level.
Exception No. 3: Listed equipment protected by a system of
double insulation, or its equivalent, shall not be required to
be connected to the equipment grounding conductor. Where
such a system is employed, the equipment shall be distinctively marked.

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