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12-13-2006, 08:31 PM
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#1
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Pro
Trade:
Electrician
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 320
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Nec 410.8
(wife) wants to put 3" recessed halogens in a large closet ..A Halogen is an incadescent but not mentioned specifically in 410.8 Would they still be considered an Incadescent (for closet sake)?..... If it came down to it would any of you argue the point that gu10 (halogen)type bulb is totally enclosed without a shower type trim. I am trying to avoid spending $400 on trims for $80 worth of cans..
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12-13-2006, 08:46 PM
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#2
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DGR,IABD
Trade:
Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,665
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Certainly the halogen lamp is incandescent. The other choice is fluorescent, and it's certainly not that. It simply has halogens added to an ordinary incandescent lamp.
Is the GU10 just like a type JC lamp, but with an "enclosure" that you change each time you relamp the fixture? I think that's what you're asking and or hoping for. Well, yes, but I don't think your inspector will buy that as part of 410.8. That GU10 is a "lamp" and not a lamp enclosure. Plus, my lamp guide shows that the face of a 50MR16/40* lamp will rise to 260 degrees celcius. That's way hotter than the A19 lamps that the code writers undoubtedly had in mind.
Below is a picture of a chocolate bar placed 8" away from an 50MR16 for 10 minutes:
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12-13-2006, 08:48 PM
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#3
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Electrical Contractor
Trade:
Electrical
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY State
Posts: 1,952
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Incandescent is incandescent. Halogen or not.
With ANY incandescent fixture the whole lamp MUST be fully enclosed. Not just the inner halogen envelope.
$400 for three trims??!?! What the hell kind of fixtures are these?
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12-13-2006, 08:49 PM
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#4
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DGR,IABD
Trade:
Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
$400 for three trims??!?! What the hell kind of fixtures are these?
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Really nice one's, I'm betting. I might make my wife choose something more "normal" for this closet. A fluorescent strip works for most folks. What's going in the house? Genuine Tiffany fixtures?
Last edited by mdshunk; 12-13-2006 at 08:51 PM.
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12-13-2006, 08:49 PM
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#5
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Electrical Contractor
Trade:
Electrical
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY State
Posts: 1,952
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Forget the damn closet. Who got to eat the melted chocolate?!? And was there marshmallow involved?
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12-13-2006, 08:50 PM
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#6
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DGR,IABD
Trade:
Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Forget the damn closet. Who got to eat the melted chocolate?!? And was there marshmallow involved?
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No marshmellow involved, but I can make that picture later if you want.
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12-13-2006, 09:04 PM
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#7
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Pro
Trade:
Electrician
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 320
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3" trims (inch)... times 10 ....at $37 each + shipping.....+ all the bs time trying to please the wife..I think my math is conservative  Whaa flourescents make my cloths look funny Im gonna save money on a tanning salon though. Ill just lay her out in that closet for a bit and she will come out looking like that chocolate bar..
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12-13-2006, 09:13 PM
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#8
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Pro
Trade:
Electrician
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 320
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Shower trim or not these things are freakin HOT. It wont be much safer with shower trim & lenses on them. I will have to call him(inspector) and ask.. This guy will probably shoot down halogens all togeather..Just wanted to see if I had some sort of legitimate arguement to use them...
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12-13-2006, 09:16 PM
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#9
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DGR,IABD
Trade:
Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSSI
I will have to call him(inspector) and ask.. This guy will probably shoot down halogens all togeather..Just wanted to see if I had some sort of legitimate arguement to use them...
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Halogens are incandescents, and you an legally use them in an enclosed fixture. To be totally honest, I have never seen an MR16 in any enclosed fixture, or in any can that had an enclosed trim available. I certainly wouldn't want these fire-hot little lamps in any clothes closet of mine, for sure.
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12-13-2006, 09:28 PM
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#10
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Electrical Contractor
Trade:
Electrical
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY State
Posts: 1,952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSSI
3" trims (inch)... times 10 ....at $37 each + shipping.....+ all the bs time trying to please the wife.
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Sorry, I had it in my head that it was three trims. Duh!
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12-13-2006, 09:30 PM
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#11
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Pro
Trade:
Electrician
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 320
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Well if I do get pushed into using them I am going to put them on a Timer.(series before dimmer)But if its mechanical it wont matter right? will I have any luck finding a 10min. max timer??
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12-13-2006, 09:31 PM
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#12
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DGR,IABD
Trade:
Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSSI
will I have any luck finding a 10min. max timer??
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Yep, posted one here just yesterday.
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12-13-2006, 10:22 PM
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#13
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Pro
Trade:
GC. Apprentice electrician
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado Front Range
Posts: 2,529
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Quote:
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Whaa flourescents make my cloths look funny
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I think you could get a fluorescent in a color and cri that might work. I did a spray booth at a porche body shop with a 5000 kelvin, 92 cri T10and made those fussy guys happy.
You can probably get 20 times the lamp life with a fluorescent over a mr16
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12-21-2006, 12:08 AM
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#14
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Union Electrician
Trade:
Inside Wireman
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Incandescent is incandescent. Halogen or not.
With ANY incandescent fixture the whole lamp MUST be fully enclosed. Not just the inner halogen envelope.
$400 for three trims??!?! What the hell kind of fixtures are these?
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So I think this is the third time now I've read something about incadescent can lights needing a sealed baffle.
Is this something new? or some special installation that I didn't notice when reading?
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12-21-2006, 12:11 AM
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#15
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Union Electrician
Trade:
Inside Wireman
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSSI
Shower trim or not these things are freakin HOT. It wont be much safer with shower trim & lenses on them. I will have to call him(inspector) and ask.. This guy will probably shoot down halogens all togeather..Just wanted to see if I had some sort of legitimate arguement to use them...
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I think the idea is where there are clothes there is lint and lint is combustible. And with linty dust collecting on the lamp you have a problem...much of a problem, I don't think so, but someone must've had one.
And by the way scratch my last post, I get it now
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12-21-2006, 12:20 AM
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#16
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Pro
Trade:
Residential Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jensen Beach, FL
Posts: 10,376
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LED's! Coming on strong especially in that price range. 100,000 hrs. operating on a few mA.
__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.
Albert Einstein
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12-21-2006, 12:24 AM
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#17
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Union Electrician
Trade:
Inside Wireman
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teetorbilt
LED's! Coming on strong especially in that price range. 100,000 hrs. operating on a few mA.
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Got any links for some good led replacements? I know they change a lot every few months or so(trying to get a piece of the market), but last time I looked they didn't seem to compare.
And just curious if anyone knows why they are only rated at 100k hours? By nature shouldn't they last forever?
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12-21-2006, 06:33 AM
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#18
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Electrical Contractor
Trade:
Electrical
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY State
Posts: 1,952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky Joe
So I think this is the third time now I've read something about incadescent can lights needing a sealed baffle.
Is this something new? or some special installation that I didn't notice when reading?
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In a clothes closet.
No, not a new requirement.
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12-21-2006, 09:39 AM
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#19
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DGFVT
Trade:
Electrical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 878
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[quote=Sparky Joe;167090]Got any links for some good led replacements? I know they change a lot every few months or so(trying to get a piece of the market), but last time I looked they didn't seem to compare.
QUOTE]
Try this link for replacement LED lamps and whatever else you want: http://www.theledlight.com/
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12-22-2006, 07:59 PM
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#20
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Union Electrician
Trade:
Inside Wireman
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
In a clothes closet.
No, not a new requirement.
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Quote sparky Joe- by the way scratch my last post I get it now- end quote
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