Just curious - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

mics_54 · 08-05-2009, 08:29 PM

Earlier there was a thread in landscaping about splicing under ground 10-2 to 12-2 at a hub. The question wasnt recieved well there. I was just wondering how this would normally be done. Say if you wanted lights at your drive entrance and a gate opener or something like that and determined the distance warrented 10 wire. with 12 ga wire going opposit directions down the fence etc. Some one said that you cant splice 12 wire to 10 wire. I would assume you can run 10 ga to an above ground box and run 12 from there. no?

Celtic · 08-05-2009, 09:55 PM

You can mix wire sizes.....sometimes it is desirable, ie long runs which result in voltage drop.
It's quite common actually ~ especially when getting involved with parking lot lighting [typically 480/277].

Yours is a prime example [although I'd want a 240v motor on that gate

]

electrichelper · 08-11-2009, 08:20 PM

You can mix the wire sizes, but the only problem is you can NOT splice underground. I'm not sure what article it's in, but it's a point of failure and if something happens such as a fire, and that was the source, it can come back on you. We had an example at school with this. Our teacher had his own business and he did such a thing. He put lamp posts outside along a driveway, and made the splices underground but didn't get an inspection. What happened, the moisture in the ground caused erosion on the wire and it shorted out with the splice box, I believe he said a "T", and started a fire within the line and fed back to the house and burned it down. So to answer your question, DO NOT SPLICE UNDERGROUND NO MATTER WHAT SIZE WIRE YOU USE. You must bring the wires above ground then back down. There you go!!

Celtic · 08-11-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrichelper

You can mix the wire sizes, but the only problem is you can NOT splice underground. I'm not sure what article it's in, but it's a point of failure and if something happens such as a fire, and that was the source, it can come back on you. We had an example at school with this. Our teacher had his own business and he did such a thing. He put lamp posts outside along a driveway, and made the splices underground but didn't get an inspection. What happened, the moisture in the ground caused erosion on the wire and it shorted out with the splice box, I believe he said a "T", and started a fire within the line and fed back to the house and burned it down. So to answer your question, DO NOT SPLICE UNDERGROUND NO MATTER WHAT SIZE WIRE YOU USE. You must bring the wires above ground then back down. There you go!!

ummmm...no...ain't buying it at all, not at any price.

3M makes many kits for splicing underground w/o a box of any sort.
Here is a link to one such item:
3M™ Splice Kit UF

Quote:

3M™ Splice Kit UF is designed to provide a reliable, moisture proof electrical connection for type U.F.-B underground feeder cable rated for 600 volts (Copper Wire Only) ranging from #14/3 without ground wire up to #8/3 with ground wire. Full Description »

The Splice Kit UF consists of a connector-insulation assembly and a heat shrink tube. The connector assembly contains four cylindrical set screw connectors separated by a piece of vinyl insulation. The heat shrink tube is a heavy-wall, adhesive-lined tube. Underground Feeder (UF)-B cables are flat, and typically have three solid conductors without ground or two solid conductors with a ground. They range in size from 8 AWG to 14 AWG. The most common UF cable size is 10-14 AWG. The 3M Splice Kit UF is offered in two versions: UF1 Standard Kit includes a 1.8" length terminal connector and an 8" length of heavy-wall, adhesive-lined heat shrink tube. UF2 Stretcher Kit has an 11.7 inch terminal connector and a 20 inch length of heavy-wall, adhesive-lined heat shrink tube. The Standard Kit is used in most of the applications. The Stretcher Kit is used in situations where a 7-10 inch section of the cable has been damaged or destroyed. It eliminates two connectors and a short piece of cable during repair.

See also; UF Splice Kit - Data Sheet (PDF 54.7 K)

Whatever your teacher did that caused a 20A ckt to burn down an entire house probably had a bit more to do with the OCPD than the splice...ask him if the panel was a Federal Pacific or Zinsco.

For you to issue a blanket statement of:
DO NOT SPLICE UNDERGROUND NO MATTER WHAT SIZE WIRE YOU USE.

Shows complete ignorance and a lack of electrical understanding on your part.

You can prove me wrong by simply providing an NEC code article that prohibits underground splicing....ask your teacher too.

Speedy Petey · 08-11-2009, 09:58 PM

Helper, Celtic is 100% correct.

This is two posts in a row that you have made erroneous statements.
If I may offer some constructive criticism. Please check your facts and codes before making statements like have above above. This site and it's relations are full of some pretty sharp folks and you will get called on misinformation.

I also agree that whatever your "teacher" did to burn down that house, it was NOT ".....a fire within the line and fed back to the house and burned it down."

mrmike · 08-12-2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrichelper

You can mix the wire sizes, but the only problem is you can NOT splice underground. I'm not sure what article it's in, but it's a point of failure and if something happens such as a fire, and that was the source, it can come back on you. We had an example at school with this. Our teacher had his own business and he did such a thing. He put lamp posts outside along a driveway, and made the splices underground but didn't get an inspection. What happened, the moisture in the ground caused erosion on the wire and it shorted out with the splice box, I believe he said a "T", and started a fire within the line and fed back to the house and burned it down. So to answer your question, DO NOT SPLICE UNDERGROUND NO MATTER WHAT SIZE WIRE YOU USE. You must bring the wires above ground then back down. There you go!!

He MUST have had a poor splice to have the moisture enter there.
Just as an example for you- I have made hundreds-yes-hundreds of splices that the cables that were put under WATER in an Aeration lagoon. Even had more than one splice in a cable- which were 1/0 & 2/0 awg that fed floating Aerators. We used Ray-chem splice kits

bert0168 · 08-12-2009, 06:52 AM

On a related note.

I am curious about a method my brother said he used to use before those 3M kits became available. I've never tried it but wonder what you guys think.

He used to make the splice then take an empty pill bottle, film canister, or small plastic bag and place the splice in it. Then take a tube of silicone caulk and fill the bottle or bag completely with the caulk. He claims this worked every time.

I never tried it but what do you think?

woodchuck2 · 08-12-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrichelper

You can mix the wire sizes, but the only problem is you can NOT splice underground. I'm not sure what article it's in, but it's a point of failure and if something happens such as a fire, and that was the source, it can come back on you. We had an example at school with this. Our teacher had his own business and he did such a thing. He put lamp posts outside along a driveway, and made the splices underground but didn't get an inspection. What happened, the moisture in the ground caused erosion on the wire and it shorted out with the splice box, I believe he said a "T", and started a fire within the line and fed back to the house and burned it down. So to answer your question, DO NOT SPLICE UNDERGROUND NO MATTER WHAT SIZE WIRE YOU USE. You must bring the wires above ground then back down. There you go!!

Is this a local code for your area??? No such thing here as everyone else has stated. I have done numerous underground splices with the Grid Company employee and my Inspector watching over my shoulder, the only problem i have ever had was these jokers poking and prodding at me

. I have even done these splices live in some cases where the Grid company truck couldnt reach the pole and the guys wouldnt pull a ladder to disconnect. I also use the 3M splice kits and they work nice, i also drown the splice in anti-corrosive grease, install the heat shrink with a heat gun "not a torch" and i tape the crap out of heat shrink. I have never had any problems as of yet.

Celtic · 08-12-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

Helper, Celtic is 100% correct.

Good thing the question/comment was posted on a weekday....you can never tell what I will post on a weekend

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert0168

On a related note.

.....
I never tried it but what do you think?

Can I tell you on Saturday?