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#1 |
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Electrician
Trade: Electrical Contractor
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 265
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GFCI Testing
I learned in a code course a while back that the test button on a GFCI receptacle is the only acceptable test of the trip circuit. Where is that written? I am facing an inspector with a tester which is not tripping the GFCI's but the button trips them just fine.
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John |
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#2 |
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Thom
Trade: General Contractor/Homebuilder
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Albuquerque NM
Posts: 3,194
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Re: GFCI Testing
Our inspectors will not use the button on the receptacle. They must use the button on their own tester. I've had to replace brand new gfci's in the past because they didn't trip with the inspectors tester even though they did trip with my tester (which I had with me and tested immediately following the inspectors failed test).
It really isn't worth arguing with the inspector on this one. Even if you win (and I doubt you will), you lose in the long run. |
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#3 | |
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Doofenshmirtz Evil Inc.
Trade: GC
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lakewood CA.
Posts: 3,659
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Re: GFCI TestingQuote:
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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber |
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#4 |
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DGR,IABD
Trade: Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,680
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Re: GFCI Testing
GFCI's are to be tested in accordance with UL 943. In a nutshell, this spec calls for them to be tested according to the manufacturer's instructions. I've never seen any GFCI instruction that called for anything other than pressing the "test" button on the receptacle or breaker.
Plugging an external "tester" into a GFCI receptacle will not trip it if that GFCI was used to replace an receptacle on an ungrounded circuit. This is one of several reasons not to rely on external testers to accept or fail a GFCI installation. Push the test button. If it trips, you're good. |
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#5 | |
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Electrician
Trade: Electrical Contractor
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 265
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Re: GFCI TestingQuote:
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John |
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#6 |
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Electrician
Trade: Electrical Contractor
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 265
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Re: GFCI Testing
Not true at all. He is wrong. Pointing this out to him is well worth the time and effort. I have never had a problem challenging the AHJ. He is there to enforce code, not show off his fancy toys. How many $12 P&S GFCI's are you willing to buy to find one he likes?
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John |
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#7 | |
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Doofenshmirtz Evil Inc.
Trade: GC
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lakewood CA.
Posts: 3,659
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Re: GFCI TestingQuote:
I have come across quite a few like that.I have learned that unless it is something really big to just fix what they want and that will make them happy. Changing out a 12.00 GFCI is a lot cheaper than sitting for inspection after inspection trying to prove you are right. JM0.02
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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber |
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#8 |
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Thom
Trade: General Contractor/Homebuilder
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Albuquerque NM
Posts: 3,194
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Re: GFCI Testing
MD, how does he test the load protected gfci's.
Our inspectors test every single receptacle in the building. Every receptacle that should be gfci gets independently tripped then the gfi gets reset. We get the same testing on afci's accept they will test by room. They will test every receptacle to make sure it works then trip the afci with a plug in tester then re-test to insure they are shut off. The only time an inspector relies on the gfi button is the remote trip for the whirlpool tub. He doesn't bother actually plugging his tester into the receptacle. He does turn on the tub then trip the gfi to insure that the tub is actually on the gfi. MD, as for the gfi not tripping on an ungrounded circuit, that's true. I didn't consider service work since I don't do, and never did service work. Last edited by thom; 07-17-2008 at 11:49 PM. |
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#9 | |
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Electrician
Trade: Electrical Contractor
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 265
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Re: GFCI TestingQuote:
Pass and Seymour just sent me a couple files from UL stating to use the test button and not an external tester. I'll post back what happens.
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John |
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#10 | |
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Electrician
Trade: Electrical Contractor
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 265
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Re: GFCI TestingQuote:
We don't have an AFCI requirement yet so I haven't dealt with that.
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John |
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#11 |
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DGR,IABD
Trade: Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,680
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Re: GFCI Testing |
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#12 |
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Curmudgeon
Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 11,707
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Re: GFCI Testing
The last new work inspection I saw here?
The guy found the panel in the garage and pasted up his sticker and left. The last permitted remodel? I was there for 2 weeks after the permit was called in...never saw a soul.
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Put your location in your profile! (Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions) |
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#13 |
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Electrician
Trade: Electrical Contractor
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 265
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Re: GFCI Testing
Here is how this turned out. The inspector agreed about pushing the button is the only accepted test. But he asked me to check it out anyway. He felt there was a problem. I went out and looked and found the open EGC. I traced the circuit to a seemingly unrelated j box containing switches and found 4 EGC's laying loose in the box. I put on a wire nut and the story now has a very happy ending. And I can add another friendly inspector to my list.
The owner wiring in this new house is terrible. He is lucky to get the green sticker. He wouldn't from me. I wouldn't buy this place.
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John |
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#14 |
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Thom
Trade: General Contractor/Homebuilder
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Albuquerque NM
Posts: 3,194
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Re: GFCI Testing
So jr, what you seem to be saying is that even though the receptacle trip worked the independent tester showed a problem that was in fact real.
I've been told that the receptacle button is a mechanical trip, not a created fault trip like you get with the tester. I don't know if this is true or not or if there are differences between manufacturers. |
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#15 | |
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Electrician
Trade: Electrical Contractor
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 265
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Re: GFCI TestingQuote:
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John |
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#16 | |
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Baltimore Electrician
Trade: Electrician
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,249
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Re: GFCI Testing
I personally test my installations with both. At the GFCI itself, I trip it with both the test button and my plug-in tester. Then I use my tester to trip all the downstream receptacles, if an EGC is present.
If I am replacing 2 prong with 3 prong per 406.3(D)(3)(c) I will use the test button while plugged into each outlet, to ensure each is, in fact, on the load side of the GFCI.
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John from Baltimore "One Day at a Time" All replies based on the 2008 NEC Quote:
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#17 | |
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Electrician
Trade: Electrical Contractor
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 265
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Re: GFCI TestingQuote:
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John |
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#18 |
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When all else fails.. run
Trade: Master Electrician & General Contractor
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 1
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Re: GFCI Testing
Let us not forget your GFI's need be tamper reisistant as well.
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#19 | |
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Baltimore Electrician
Trade: Electrician
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,249
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Re: GFCI Testing
When the 2008 NEC is adopted in your local jurisdiction.
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John from Baltimore "One Day at a Time" All replies based on the 2008 NEC Quote:
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