jrclen

I learned in a code course a while back that the test button on a GFCI receptacle is the only acceptable test of the trip circuit. Where is that written? I am facing an inspector with a tester which is not tripping the GFCI's but the button trips them just fine.

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John

thom

Our inspectors will not use the button on the receptacle. They must use the button on their own tester. I've had to replace brand new gfci's in the past because they didn't trip with the inspectors tester even though they did trip with my tester (which I had with me and tested immediately following the inspectors failed test).

It really isn't worth arguing with the inspector on this one. Even if you win (and I doubt you will), you lose in the long run.

JumboJack

The inspectors do it like that around here too.

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mdshunk

GFCI's are to be tested in accordance with UL 943. In a nutshell, this spec calls for them to be tested according to the manufacturer's instructions. I've never seen any GFCI instruction that called for anything other than pressing the "test" button on the receptacle or breaker.

Plugging an external "tester" into a GFCI receptacle will not trip it if that GFCI was used to replace an receptacle on an ungrounded circuit. This is one of several reasons not to rely on external testers to accept or fail a GFCI installation. Push the test button. If it trips, you're good.

jrclen

Thanks MD. I figured it might be the UL listing. Now all I have to do is locate it in writing for the inspector. I've never run into this before. The units are P&S and replacing them for no reason just seems plain wrong to me. And who says the new ones will pass his tester?

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John

jrclen

Not true at all. He is wrong. Pointing this out to him is well worth the time and effort. I have never had a problem challenging the AHJ. He is there to enforce code, not show off his fancy toys. How many $12 P&S GFCI's are you willing to buy to find one he likes?

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John

JumboJack

I totaly agree...Inpectors can be a fickel and funny bunch..Embarass him or piss him off and he may pull you through knotholes every chance he gets.
I have come across quite a few like that.I have learned that unless it is something really big to just fix what they want and that will make them happy.
Changing out a 12.00 GFCI is a lot cheaper than sitting for inspection after inspection trying to prove you are right.
JM0.02

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thom

MD, how does he test the load protected gfci's.

Our inspectors test every single receptacle in the building. Every receptacle that should be gfci gets independently tripped then the gfi gets reset.

We get the same testing on afci's accept they will test by room. They will test every receptacle to make sure it works then trip the afci with a plug in tester then re-test to insure they are shut off.

The only time an inspector relies on the gfi button is the remote trip for the whirlpool tub. He doesn't bother actually plugging his tester into the receptacle. He does turn on the tub then trip the gfi to insure that the tub is actually on the gfi.

MD, as for the gfi not tripping on an ungrounded circuit, that's true. I didn't consider service work since I don't do, and never did service work.

jrclen

I've heard about inspectors like that, but have never run into one. Around here the inspectors will listen and if you show them they are wrong or they can't show you they are right, they will back off. This is a new guy and he just told me to show him in writing. So I will. And that will save every other electrician an unwarranted headache.

Pass and Seymour just sent me a couple files from UL stating to use the test button and not an external tester. I'll post back what happens.

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John

jrclen

Our inspectors do the same thing. They test every receptacle outlet. They plug their polarity checker into a load side receptacle and then push the test button on the GFCI receptacle or on the GFCI breaker. If the lights go out, it's good.

We don't have an AFCI requirement yet so I haven't dealt with that.

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John

mdshunk

Press the 'test' button on the GFCI and go see if the power dropped out on all the receptacles you're concerned about.

neolitic

The last new work inspection I saw here?
The guy found the panel in the garage and
pasted up his sticker and left.
The last permitted remodel?
I was there for 2 weeks after the permit
was called in...never saw a soul.

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jrclen

Here is how this turned out. The inspector agreed about pushing the button is the only accepted test. But he asked me to check it out anyway. He felt there was a problem. I went out and looked and found the open EGC. I traced the circuit to a seemingly unrelated j box containing switches and found 4 EGC's laying loose in the box. I put on a wire nut and the story now has a very happy ending. And I can add another friendly inspector to my list.

The owner wiring in this new house is terrible. He is lucky to get the green sticker. He wouldn't from me. I wouldn't buy this place.

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John

thom

So jr, what you seem to be saying is that even though the receptacle trip worked the independent tester showed a problem that was in fact real.

I've been told that the receptacle button is a mechanical trip, not a created fault trip like you get with the tester. I don't know if this is true or not or if there are differences between manufacturers.

jrclen

That is correct Thom. The button does check for a fault by creating an imbalance. So it is a legitimate test of the GFCI circuit. But the test button will work fine with no grounding conductor. The other tester needs a grounding conductor to work. So in this case it indicated the missing ground connection. But in old work, a GFCI can be installed on a circuit with no ground. In that case the button would be the only test which would work.

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John

JohnJ0906

I personally test my installations with both. At the GFCI itself, I trip it with both the test button and my plug-in tester. Then I use my tester to trip all the downstream receptacles, if an EGC is present.
If I am replacing 2 prong with 3 prong per 406.3(D)(3)(c) I will use the test button while plugged into each outlet, to ensure each is, in fact, on the load side of the GFCI.

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

jrclen

Not a bad idea. I need a new receptacle tester anyway. Maybe I'll look at one which will trip a GFCI.

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John

JA Scott

Let us not forget your GFI's need be tamper reisistant as well.

JohnJ0906

When the 2008 NEC is adopted in your local jurisdiction.

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

jrclen

They will in a year or so when Wisconsin adopts the 2008. Next spring is the rumor.

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John