EC&M Joe Specifically

Sparky Joe

So I was just looking at one of your "what's wrong here" posts at EC&M, it was the one about the smashed conduit assumed to be caused by delivery drivers.........

I have some problems with that conclusion;
This conduit(3/4") was run tight to the wall, but yet the wall endured no injuries whatsoever.
There is some other stuff running up the wall parallel to the conduit and not more than 8 inches away from the damaged pipe and it has no apparent damage on it either.
There is a 20" brick sidewalk alongside the wall that clearly points out that a 'delivery driver' is too close to the building when he notices his tires are on it.
The type of damage to the conduit shown in the picture was not from merely smashing into it with a truck due to there not being any creases in the conduit. But more so looks like something rubbing and wearing away at it.

I just would like further information on how you drew your conclusion(the anchor holes next to the conduit might say something to me). I'm posting all this here because it seems the question you posted ("what's wrong here") doesn't offer any way to reply on the EC&M site.

By the way, around here we only have the code as our rules and anything up to 6 feet in a situation like the picture needs to be in rigid, or else have ballards gaurding it. Don't know the refference, just know that needs to be done( hell, perhaps that's just the way we do it and the code doesn't care if it gets damaged)


Which brings me to a new point for all the code enthusiast's, instead of being determined to make the code book as large of a full encyclopedia britannica, why not lobby for stricter licensing, perhaps even nationwide electrical licensing with srtringent testing and extensive continuing education. I know everyone is dying to get one of there changes added to the next edition of the code just so they could tell their buddies "I'm the one who wrote that". It's already to the point that an exclusive electrical inspector can't even see but 1/4 of the violations on a job, not their fault they're too busy and there is far too many code references for them to memorize(hopefully they have all the important ones down).

I think I've heard mentioned several times around here that it's not up to the inspector to rate a 'to code' installation, but relies mainly on the installer. That's why I think strict training and education and governmental regulation of both throughout an electricians career is the most important thing to ensure quality work is being done on people's homes and businesses.
I even feel that a service type electrician, where work is not likely to ever be inspected, should have even tougher training and state regulation.

Any comments on this subject?

-Joe

JohnJ0906

I believe continuing education is very important. I think there are only 2 counties in Maryland that require ANY CE at all, and that only for the licence holder. I myself take at least one class a year on my time and dollar because I think it is so important. Participating in these forums has found some gaps in my knowledge I didn't even know I had!

DAVIS081404

So now we need more govt?

Sparky Joe

If scabs do good work for you then fine. How much schooling do they go through, or do they just consider this a "McJob".

I'm sure you'd make the same comments about illegal aliens should not be allowed in skilled trades. Well what's to stop them? If they're required to go to school but yet cannot speak english then I say good luck to them.

jproffer

I'm not an electrician but that's quite a leap, assuming that scabs = non-union electricians. So are you saying that anyone non-union is an accident waiting to happen, basically?

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Jim P.

Sparky Joe

I think 'scab' is a loose term, i.e. "scab it in"
The closest definition is similar to what you explained of an unorganized worker crossing a picket line of guys demanding better working conditions.

I think I was pointing out that they come to work with no dedication whatsoever just hoping to earn a better paycheck than a day-laborer which in fact is what these guys amount to be.

jproffer

Fair enough. I wasn't (and still am not) trying to start a union/non-union debate, but I can see that there are good and bad points to both. However, "scab" used in the way you explained kind of makes all this a moot point anyway.

BTW, McJob....I like it, I'm stealing it...lol

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Jim P.

JoeTedesco

What is a Code Nazi?

Who are you calling a Code Nazi on this Board?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

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Sparky Joe

I apologize and removed the very poorly used and offensive word.

I hate to use excuses when I know I am wrong, but have to say nothing mean was meant by it.

thom

Sparky Joe, I believe there are different levels of proficiency required of electricians doing different types of work. One can learn the rules and techniques for installing romex in a single family residence much quicker than that required for a major office or industrial building. There's not much point in training a guy to do these major buildings if all he's going to do is houses. On the other hand, the guy qualified to do the major buildings would be bored to death on houses.

Clearly cost is an issue. Forced ineffeciency (in your recommendation forced by excessively stringent licensing) makes us all poorer. It wastes a valuable resource (talented manhours) thus diminishing the total wealth of society as a whole.

Sparky Joe

What the heck are you talking about? How would licensing make people poorer? I'm licensed and am not poor. You are licensed as a contractor I assume. Would it be preferred as a contractor that none of your competitors need to carry a license, In fact I bet most of them don't (if you're in residential) and pay a fraction of the business costs and also live fractionally as well as a licensed contractor.

It's the fact that people who are serious and have money to spend will always seek out the skilled personell, meaning licensed because who else is going to deem that you know what you are doing to all the consumers in your area, other than local government. Whereas the ones that do not have money will always seek out their second cousin's uncle to do their work, and you didn't want that work anyway.

Now say this uncle has a small crew and has made enough money to get his license and is now bidding work that you normally bid, but for half the price. How can he do it fo half the price, of course his overhead is merely printer ink in his "home office", but his manpower is unskilled, underpaid and untrained to do a quality job. Say you go the extent of pleading with your customer that this guy will not do a good job, but they say "he's licensed same as you", Then of course you would tell them to kiss off and hope their place burns down.


You're gonna have to explain that whole "wasting manhours" and "diminshing society" part, because you're not making any sense.

DAVIS081404

Sparky Joe

what's the head bashing for "baby face"?

Sparky Joe

Oh and because I just read again the start of Thom's post..........of course a residential electrician could not be expected to walk into a refinery or power plant and know the first thing of what's going on. First thing he'd be asking is if he needs to carry his "romex strippers" anymore.
In your neck of the woods are they all considered the same? Here there is a "resi. journeyman" and a regular "journeyman". The resi. contractors test could be taken after 3 years(1 year of resi. journeyman), and a regular contractor after 6 years(2 years of journeyman). Is there such a thing as 'journeyman' status in your state? Must suck for your guys to bargain for wages, or even to work for someone else in seek of better conditions.

MO-AMPS

wow!!!!!!!!!!