pudge565

Ok I am thinking about sending in a proposal for the 2011 NEC that you must have a disconnect near the meter can so that in the event of fire the Fire Company can shut off power without worring about arc flash. Now comes the problem of kids shutting off your power for fun so I say just put a lock on it. However I was told by nap that you cannot put a lock on it. is this true and if so how could you stop kids from turning off power for fun? How do all of you feel about this proposal? please tell me what you think.

BKFranks

The apartments I used to live at had the meters all downstairs with only a main breaker right underneath each meter. In each apartment they had their own sub panel. If the electric co wanted to turn off the power, they would lock the breaker so it couldn't be turned back on until the bill was paid.

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JohnJ0906

Well, why don't you write the proposal, then post it here. The exact wording, and the substantiation are important parts of the proposal, so we might be able to help with that..

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

mickeyco

Maybe some sort of warning sticker. Is this really a problem, I'm not suggesting it isn't, I don't know, just asking?

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Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

fridaymean

In a hurry, they'll pull the meter out. Thier suits/boots are made for these type of hazzards.

As far as a disco, you can lock it off, usually not on.

pudge565

I hate to tell you that our boots and suits won't withstand an arcflash. What temps can be expected in an arc flash I would think at least 50,000.

And Fridaymean can you post the code section that this is in. I had some one tell me 230.70 (A) (1) but that just states readily accessable area. them they said 230.92 and that states that Where the service overcurrent devices are locked or sealed or not radily accesable to the occupant, overcurrent devices shall be installed on the load side and must be of a lower amper rating than the service overcurrent device.

747

i don't see a problem with the lock. I'm sure every fire truck has bolt cutters on it. Furthermore if it become code they definately would have bolt cutters on the truck.

pudge565

Fridaymean I am still waiting for your reply about the code section. I have found that arc flashes will reach temps of 15,000 degrees not 50,000. But again our suits and boots are not made to withstand these temps if you are ignorant on the subject please feel free to PM me and I can explain to you about the fire service.

Bubbles

The local power company needs to get a transformer fuse stick to all the firefighters. Or, they can just make their own. Only bad thing is 10 neighbors might be on the same transformer

JonM

I would guess you could have a universal key (something in the way of a hex T wrench) that the fire department can insert and turn the power off.

fridaymean

What code section?

I was talking about "IN A HURRY." Impying that the house is burning down and they do not want to go inside to kill the main breaker before they pull the meter. (Or wait 2 hrs for the power company) Just divulging what I have seen/heard. Didnt mean to imply that it was proper or correct.

What exactly is an "electrical occupations student" anyway.
You may have textbook answers, unfortunatly, that does not always work in the real world.

pudge565

I was wondering if you had a code section that says you can lock the disconnect. Electrical occupations is the name of the course at Berks Career And Technology Center.

the catfish

Here in the St Louis region all 480v meter bases must now have a built in disconnect before the line side of the meter. This is a new poco rule here, too many arc flashes when pulling hot meters with unexpected loads. Adds about 500 to $600 per meter base. Would be nice if it was on the load side so we wouldn't be paying for two breakers. So far the ones I've seen utilize breakers as the disconnect. Not a bad idea and would help in tight locations with the main disconnect grouping rule.

220/221

Everything HERE is installed that way and has been for a very long time.

I am pretty sure you don't want to be pulling a meter to disconnect during a fire/flood/whatever.

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Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Ponsse

What's the matter with you people. Why would you want to save the house if it was on fire anyways? Do you want a half burnt house? Good luck with rebuilding and fighting with the insurance company on that one!

Now if you want a good suggestion, here it is: Wait on the road for the firetrucks to come by, and then shoot their tires out so you aren't stuck with a half burnt house.

And leave the NEC alone, there's enough BS in there already.

Driftwood

I'm a G.C. IN N. CALIF. Our main disconnect is at the meter panel !!!!!!
Can't imagine it being different elsewhere ????????????

Bkessler

When I first moved to the west coast I couldn't believe an "all in one meter main" when I saw one. Why would you put your panel in the baking sun all day? I still have not figured it out.

Driftwood

Answer, so the fire Dept. can shut the main off ! Kinda makes them feel good
especially good with allum. siding. Built in Mass. in the 70s. Laugh at the no conduit feeding the meter down the outside wall ! Myself, I always run the sub panel inside, just the main out at meter. Don't want to see someone uot at nite in the rain with a flashlight, especially a Gal!

woodchuck2

Here if you install a meter socket on a utility pole or pedistal then you are required to install a disconnect. If you install the meter socket on the side of the home then are not required to install the disconnect, if the home were on fire you would have power to the meter socket anyway. A fuse would have to be pulled to shut off power, that would be alot of liability on the Chief and Safety Officer if someone were to pull the fuse. We leave that to the grid company and try to save the cellar.

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220/221

It's not a kid or a dog. It's a piece of metal and plastic. It's made to go outdoors.

Seems logical to me.

1. Ease of installation. Stub your home runs out, hang the panel and you're done.

2. Doesn't take up valuable space inside.

3. No unfused conductors running inside your house.

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.