210.12 - AFCI requirement - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Tinstaafl · 09-26-2008, 05:29 PM

2008 NEC:

"family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas"

Gotta love that "similar" spec. Does this imply that a laundry room washing machine outlet needs AFCI protection?

And for a bonus, does anyone know the reasoning behind not requiring AFCI on 240V circuits? Maybe because the connections are either permanent or heavier-duty connectors as a rule?

nap · 09-26-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

]2008 NEC:

"family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas"

Gotta love that "similar" spec. Does this imply that a laundry room washing machine outlet needs AFCI protection?

My understanding is that dedicated receptacles do not require AFCI. . Additionally, I do not see a laundry room as "similar" to any of the other rooms listed. If you notice, kitchens are not included in the listing of rooms either. The devices plugged into these receps would tend to not having the cords positioned in a manner that would allow damage to them.

Quote:

And for a bonus, does anyone know the reasoning behind not requiring AFCI on 240V circuits? Maybe because the connections are either permanent or heavier-duty connectors as a rule?

I would suggest they are not required because whatever is plugged into them generally does not have the cord in a position that would allow damage and resulting arcing. UL lists the AFCI to prevent arcing that, if left unchecked, could cause a fire.

From UL:

Quote:

This category covers arc-fault circuit interrupters (AFCI) intended to mitigate the effects of arcing faults that may pose a risk of fire ignition under certain conditions if the arcing persists.

These devices have been investigated to determine their ability to recognize and react to arcing faults. They have also been investigated to determine resistance to unwanted tripping because of the presence of arcing that occurs in control and utilization equipment under normal operating conditions and to verify that operation is not unduly inhibited by the presence of loads and circuit characteristics that may mask or attenuate unwanted arcing.

Tinstaafl · 09-26-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nap

My understanding is that dedicated receptacles do not require AFCI. .

I've had that sense for some time, but haven't been able to find it actually documented. Anyone?

Quote:

Additionally, I do not see a laundry room as "similar" to any of the other rooms listed. If you notice, kitchens are not included in the listing of rooms either. The devices plugged into these receps would tend to not having the cords positioned in a manner that would allow damage to them.

"Similar" is such a wildly accurate term that I'd like to see it banned from any regulatory definitions. Pink and purple are similar--they're both colors, and they both start with "p". It just seems as though they're determined to eventually require either AF or GF or both, in any circuit.

Your take on the 240V question runs somewhat along the same lines as my conjecture. OTOH, I have this nagging intuitive feeling that if one of those circuits did somehow wind up with a damaged connection for whatever reason, the resulting arc would be noticeably hotter and longer lasting. If that's indeed the case, I would expect the extra danger to offset the reduced likelihood and give equal cause for protecting those circuits as well.

Not that I'm at all in favor of even more regulations to protect us from ourselves.

JohnJ0906 · 09-28-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nap

My understanding is that dedicated receptacles do not require AFCI.

A dedicated circuit is still an outlet, therefore, if it is in an area where AFCI protection is necessary, it is required to have AFCI.

If you install a dedicated receptacle outside, or in another location where GFCI protection is required, you are still required to have GFCI protection, correct?

nap · 09-28-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnJ0906

A dedicated circuit is still an outlet, therefore, if it is in an area where AFCI protection is necessary, it is required to have AFCI.

If you install a dedicated receptacle outside, or in another location where GFCI protection is required, you are still required to have GFCI protection, correct?

Actually, it appears that kitchens and utility rooms have escaped the AFCI requirement, at least per my interpretion. It could be simply that all the dedicated outlets I can think of are within those two areas and I am taking what I have heard and interpreting it as dedicated receps rather than realizing those receps are not in an area that requires AFCI protection.

and to your GFCI statement;

read NEC 2005 210.8 (A)(5) exceptions. and 210.8 (A)(2) exceptions.
.

JohnJ0906 · 09-28-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nap

Actually, it appears that kitchens and utility rooms have escaped the AFCI requirement, at least per my interpretion. It could be simply that all the dedicated outlets I can think of are within those two areas and I am taking what I have heard and interpreting it as dedicated receps rather than realizing those receps are not in an area that requires AFCI protection.

I agree.

Quote:

and to your GFCI statement;

read NEC 2005 210.8 (A)(5) exceptions. and 210.8 (A)(2) exceptions.
.

I only post for the '08 now. I am fully aware of the exceptions that have been removed.

Perhaps a bad analogy.

nap · 09-28-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnJ0906

I agree.

I only post for the '08 now. I am fully aware of the exceptions that have been removed.

Perhaps a bad analogy.

I don't have mine handy and the 08 code is not applicable in either state I work in.

j_builder · 09-28-2008, 08:45 PM

I was wondering if my sparky knew that the AFCI breakers needed to be located in more than the bedrooms only . http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magaz..._a/unseld.html

woodchuck2 · 10-11-2008, 04:33 AM

Here in NY the 2008 NEC requirements have not been adopted yet, we are still going by 2005 requirements.

Speedy Petey · 10-11-2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodchuck2

Here in NY the 2008 NEC requirements have not been adopted yet, we are still going by 2005 requirements.

Here in NY we just started using the 2005 code.

Also, and more importantly, here in NY we follow the NYS Residential Code for one and two family dwellings. AFCIs are not required in commercial work.