Vgb. - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

nadtwins · 02-05-2009, 01:41 PM

I am surprised I haven't seen any comments about VGB! How is everyone who is responsible for commercial pools making out with getting compliant covers? Is any one having issues with local VS Federal requirements?

Poolman · 02-13-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nadtwins

I am surprised I haven't seen any comments about VGB! How is everyone who is responsible for commercial pools making out with getting compliant covers? Is any one having issues with local VS Federal requirements?

We do not do much commercial work, so we have not had many issues yet. We'll see how the spring goes. You must be selling the grates and SVRS's like they're going out of style!?

GunitePoolGuy · 02-16-2009, 04:02 PM

we havent had much work for this cause our health dept is against vgb.

Poolman · 02-17-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunitePoolGuy

we havent had much work for this cause our health dept is against vgb.

How are they against it? It's the law of the land for commercial pools in the US of A.

nadtwins · 02-19-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunitePoolGuy

we havent had much work for this cause our health dept is against vgb.

How scary is that comment????????????
As if your health department has a choice!!!!!!!!!
Above and beyond that god forbid there is an incident in a commercial pool that is not in compliance with VGB that you are taking care of--- you will with out a doubt be doing Jail time!

Poolman · 02-19-2009, 04:25 PM

The tailors are coming to measure Gunite Pool Guy up for a striped jump suit.

Don't ignore the topic whether you work on commercial pools or not. As a professional swimming pool contractor/service company you should make it a priorty to stay abreast of the national industry issues.

nadtwins · 02-20-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poolman

We do not do much commercial work, so we have not had many issues yet. We'll see how the spring goes. You must be selling the grates and SVRS's like they're going out of style!?

Hey PoolMan!
The grates go out faster than they are coming in! If you need some for this summer you should order them now. One thing to keep in mind the big guys grate has a horrible flow rate @ 1.5' per second. So be careful which grate you chose make sure that it can accommodate the full flow of the system @1.5' per second if everything else is blocked.
If your interested there is a code class On Tuesday that will cover all the new codes both residential and commercial, the speakers that are lined up are pretty good!

GunitePoolGuy · 02-20-2009, 06:07 PM

You guys are absolutley right! And believe me when i tell you that all of our new pools and renovations comply with fed laws. It does not effect us so much because we are not a service company. All i was saying is that in my neck of the woods its not being strictly enforced.

Shoreline58 · 03-01-2009, 11:02 AM

We actually started doing VGB upgrades last summer on municipal pools. The biggest problem/slow-down was the availability of ANSI certified covers. They are coming through the system pretty well now. This work along with filter plant replacements and UV systems is keeping us rather busy.

SLSTech · 03-01-2009, 11:14 AM

If you guys don't mind - what is VGB / the new regs you are talking about? Thanks

j_builder · 03-01-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLSTech

If you guys don't mind - what is VGB / the new regs you are talking about? Thanks

Here's the info on the VGB requirements. http://www.nspf.org/Documents/CPSC_A...2011-14-08.pdf

nadtwins · 03-03-2009, 10:33 AM

Here is the compleate lawwritten
I will have to post it in two sections

TITLE XIV--POOL AND SPA SAFETY
SEC. 1401. SHORT TITLE.
This title may be cited as the `Virginia Graeme Baker Pool and Spa Safety
Act'.
SEC. 1402. FINDINGS.
Congress finds the following:
(1) Of injury-related deaths, drowning is the second leading cause of
death in children aged 1 to 14 in the United States.
(2) In 2004, 761 children aged 14 and under died as a result of
unintentional drowning.
(3) Adult supervision at all aquatic venues is a critical safety factor in
preventing children from drowning.
(4) Research studies show that the installation and proper use of
barriers or fencing, as well as additional layers of protection, could
substantially reduce the number of childhood residential swimming
pool drownings and near drownings.
SEC. 1403. DEFINITIONS.
In this title:
(1) ASME/ANSI- The term `ASME/ANSI' as applied to a safety
standard means such a standard that is accredited by the American
National Standards Institute and published by the American Society
of Mechanical Engineers.
(2) BARRIER- The term `barrier' includes a natural or constructed
topographical feature that prevents unpermitted access by children
to a swimming pool, and, with respect to a hot tub, a lockable cover.
(3) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the Consumer
Product Safety Commission.
(4) MAIN DRAIN- The term `main drain' means a submerged suction
outlet typically located at the bottom of a pool or spa to conduct
water to a recirculating pump.
(5) SAFETY VACUUM RELEASE SYSTEM- The term `safety vacuum
release system' means a vacuum release system capable of
providing vacuum release at a suction outlet caused by a high
vacuum occurrence due to a suction outlet flow blockage.
(6) SWIMMING POOL; SPA- The term `swimming pool' or `spa'
means any outdoor or indoor structure intended for swimming or
recreational bathing, including in-ground and above-ground
2
structures, and includes hot tubs, spas, portable spas, and nonportable
wading pools.
(7) UNBLOCKABLE DRAIN- The term `unblockable drain' means a
drain of any size and shape that a human body cannot sufficiently
block to create a suction entrapment hazard.
SEC. 1404. FEDERAL SWIMMING POOL AND SPA DRAIN
COVER STANDARD.
(a) Consumer Product Safety Rule- The requirements described in
subsection (b) shall be treated as a consumer product safety rule issued by
the Consumer Product Safety Commission under the Consumer Product
Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2051 et seq.).
(b) Drain Cover Standard- Effective 1 year after the date of enactment of
this title, each swimming pool or spa drain cover manufactured,
distributed, or entered into commerce in the United States shall conform to
the entrapment protection standards of the ASME/ANSI A112.19.8
performance standard, or any successor standard regulating such
swimming pool or drain cover.
(c) Public Pools-
(1) REQUIRED EQUIPMENT-
(A) IN GENERAL- Beginning 1 year after the date of
enactment of this title--
(i) each public pool and spa in the United States shall
be equipped with anti-entrapment devices or systems
that comply with the ASME/ANSI A112.19.8
performance standard, or any successor standard; and
(ii) each public pool and spa in the United States with a
single main drain other than an unblockable drain shall
be equipped, at a minimum, with 1 or more of the
following devices or systems designed to prevent
entrapment by pool or spa drains that meets the
requirements of subparagraph (B):
(I) SAFETY VACUUM RELEASE SYSTEM- A safety
vacuum release system which ceases operation
of the pump, reverses the circulation flow, or
otherwise provides a vacuum release at a suction
outlet when a blockage is detected, that has been
tested by an independent third party and found
to conform to ASME/ANSI standard A112.19.17
or ASTM standard F2387.
(II) SUCTION-LIMITING VENT SYSTEM- A
suction-limiting vent system with a tamperresistant
atmospheric opening.
(III) GRAVITY DRAINAGE SYSTEM- A gravity
drainage system that utilizes a collector tank.
3
(IV) AUTOMATIC PUMP SHUT-OFF SYSTEM- An
automatic pump shut-off system.
(V) DRAIN DISABLEMENT- A device or system
that disables the drain.
(VI) OTHER SYSTEMS- Any other system
determined by the Commission to be equally
effective as, or better than, the systems
described in subclauses (I) through (V) of this
clause at preventing or eliminating the risk of
injury or death associated with pool drainage
systems.
(B) APPLICABLE STANDARDS- Any device or system described
in subparagraph (A)(ii) shall meet the requirements of any
ASME/ANSI or ASTM performance standard if there is such a
standard for such a device or system, or any applicable
consumer product safety standard.
(2) PUBLIC POOL AND SPA DEFINED- In this subsection, the term
`public pool and spa' means a swimming pool or spa that is--
(A) open to the public generally, whether for a fee or free of
charge;
(B) open exclusively to--
(i) members of an organization and their guests;
(ii) residents of a multi-unit apartment building,
apartment complex, residential real estate
development, or other multi-family residential area
(other than a municipality, township, or other local
government jurisdiction); or
(iii) patrons of a hotel or other public accommodations
facility; or
(C) operated by the Federal Government (or by a
concessionaire on behalf of the Federal Government) for the
benefit of members of the Armed Forces and their dependents
or employees of any department or agency and their
dependents.
(3) ENFORCEMENT- Violation of paragraph (1) shall be considered to
be a violation of section 19(a)(1) of the Consumer Product Safety
Act (15 U.S.C. 2068(a)(1)) and may also be enforced under section
17 of that Act (15 U.S.C. 2066).

nadtwins · 03-03-2009, 10:34 AM

here is the secound part!

SEC. 1405. STATE SWIMMING POOL SAFETY GRANT
PROGRAM.
(a) In General- Subject to the availability of appropriations authorized by
subsection (e), the Commission shall establish a grant program to provide
assistance to eligible States.
(b) Eligibility- To be eligible for a grant under the program, a State shall--
4
(1) demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Commission that it has a
State statute, or that, after the date of enactment of this title, it has
enacted a statute, or amended an existing statute, and provides for
the enforcement of, a law that--
(A) except as provided in section 1406(a)(1)(A)(i), applies to
all swimming pools in the State; and
(B) meets the minimum State law requirements of section
1406; and
(2) submit an application to the Commission at such time, in such
form, and containing such additional information as the Commission
may require.
(c) Amount of Grant- The Commission shall determine the amount of a
grant awarded under this title, and shall consider--
(1) the population and relative enforcement needs of each qualifying
State; and
(2) allocation of grant funds in a manner designed to provide the
maximum benefit from the program in terms of protecting children
from drowning or entrapment, and, in making that allocation, shall
give priority to States that have not received a grant under this title
in a preceding fiscal year.
(d) Use of Grant Funds- A State receiving a grant under this section shall
use--
(1) at least 50 percent of amounts made available to hire and train
enforcement personnel for implementation and enforcement of
standards under the State swimming pool and spa safety law; and
(2) the remainder--
(A) to educate pool construction and installation companies
and pool service companies about the standards;
(B) to educate pool owners, pool operators, and other
members of the public about the standards under the
swimming pool and spa safety law and about the prevention
of drowning or entrapment of children using swimming pools
and spas; and
(C) to defray administrative costs associated with such
training and education programs.
(e) Authorization of Appropriations- There are authorized to be
appropriated to the Commission for each of fiscal years 2009 and 2010
$2,000,000 to carry out this section, such sums to remain available until
expended. Any amounts appropriated pursuant to this subsection that
remain unexpended and unobligated at the end of fiscal year 2010 shall be
retained by the Commission and credited to the appropriations account
that funds enforcement of the Consumer Product Safety Act.
SEC. 1406. MINIMUM STATE LAW REQUIREMENTS.
(a) In General-
(1) SAFETY STANDARDS- A State meets the minimum State law
requirements of this section if--
5
(A) the State requires by statute--
(i) the enclosure of all outdoor residential pools and
spas by barriers to entry that will effectively prevent
small children from gaining unsupervised and
unfettered access to the pool or spa;
(ii) that all pools and spas be equipped with devices and
systems designed to prevent entrapment by pool or spa
drains;
(iii) that pools and spas built more than 1 year after the
date of the enactment of such statute have--
(I) more than 1 drain;
(II) 1 or more unblockable drains; or
(III) no main drain;
(iv) every swimming pool and spa that has a main
drain, other than an unblockable drain, be equipped
with a drain cover that meets the consumer product
safety standard established by section 1404; and
(v) that periodic notification is provided to owners of
residential swimming pools or spas about compliance
with the entrapment protection standards of the
ASME/ANSI A112.19.8 performance standard, or any
successor standard; and
(B) the State meets such additional State law requirements
for pools and spas as the Commission may establish after
public notice and a 30-day public comment period.
(2) NO LIABILITY INFERENCE ASSOCIATED WITH STATE
NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENT- The minimum State law notification
requirement under paragraph (1)(A)(v) shall not be construed to
imply any liability on the part of a State related to that requirement.
(3) USE OF MINIMUM STATE LAW REQUIREMENTS- The
Commission--
(A) shall use the minimum State law requirements under
paragraph (1) solely for the purpose of determining the
eligibility of a State for a grant under section 1405 of this Act;
and
(B) may not enforce any requirement under paragraph (1)
except for the purpose of determining the eligibility of a State
for a grant under section 1405 of this Act.
(4) REQUIREMENTS TO REFLECT NATIONAL PERFORMANCE
STANDARDS AND COMMISSION GUIDELINES- In establishing
minimum State law requirements under paragraph (1), the
Commission shall--
(A) consider current or revised national performance
standards on pool and spa barrier protection and entrapment
prevention; and
(B) ensure that any such requirements are consistent with the
guidelines contained in the Commission's publication 362,
entitled `Safety Barrier Guidelines for Home Pools', the
6
Commission's publication entitled `Guidelines for Entrapment
Hazards: Making Pools and Spas Safer', and any other pool
safety guidelines established by the Commission.
(b) Standards- Nothing in this section prevents the Commission from
promulgating standards regulating pool and spa safety or from relying on
an applicable national performance standard.
(c) Basic Access-Related Safety Devices and Equipment Requirements To
Be Considered- In establishing minimum State law requirements for
swimming pools and spas under subsection (a)(1), the Commission shall
consider the following requirements:
(1) COVERS- A safety pool cover.
(2) GATES- A gate with direct access to the swimming pool or spa
that is equipped with a self-closing, self-latching device.
(3) DOORS- Any door with direct access to the swimming pool or spa
that is equipped with an audible alert device or alarm which sounds
when the door is opened.
(4) POOL ALARM- A device designed to provide rapid detection of an
entry into the water of a swimming pool or spa.
(d) Entrapment, Entanglement, and Evisceration Prevention Standards To
Be Required-
(1) IN GENERAL- In establishing additional minimum State law
requirements for swimming pools and spas under subsection (a)(1),
the Commission shall require, at a minimum, 1 or more of the
following (except for pools constructed without a single main drain):
(A) SAFETY VACUUM RELEASE SYSTEM- A safety vacuum
release system which ceases operation of the pump, reverses
the circulation flow, or otherwise provides a vacuum release at
a suction outlet when a blockage is detected, that has been
tested by an independent third party and found to conform to
ASME/ANSI standard A112.19.17 or ASTM standard F2387, or
any successor standard.
(B) SUCTION-LIMITING VENT SYSTEM- A suction-limiting vent
system with a tamper-resistant atmospheric opening.
(C) GRAVITY DRAINAGE SYSTEM- A gravity drainage system
that utilizes a collector tank.
(D) AUTOMATIC PUMP SHUT-OFF SYSTEM- An automatic
pump shut-off system.
(E) DRAIN DISABLEMENT- A device or system that disables
the drain.
(F) OTHER SYSTEMS- Any other system determined by the
Commission to be equally effective as, or better than, the
systems described in subparagraphs (A) through (E) of this
paragraph at preventing or eliminating the risk of injury or
death associated with pool drainage systems.
(2) APPLICABLE STANDARDS- Any device or system described in
subparagraphs (B) through (E) of paragraph (1) shall meet the
requirements of any ASME/ANSI or ASTM performance standard if
7
there is such a standard for such a device or system, or any
applicable consumer product safety standard.

Pool Hero · 03-03-2009, 11:36 AM

Don't forget that it isnt JUST about the grates! The grates must be properly sized to meet the flow requirements of the pool. In addition to the grates you have sumps that may require improvement. Finally you have the second layer of protection such as splitting drains, SVRS, unblockable drains, etc.

You should also keep a database of any drain fittings you sell or install. The Consumer Product Safety Commission posts recall notices on their website every day and I am sure that is coming to pool builders as well.

You can't ignore it, it is the law of the land. I believe the max fine is set at $15m for willfully ignoring the VGBA.