Refacing Cabinets-is It 'worth' It?

72chevy4x4

I went out to look at a lead where the customer would like refaced cabinetry in a small kitchen and a new laminate countertop.

I've installed new, but never refaced, all though have read up and it seems like a breeze. It's easy to see how selling new cabinetry is going to make more money and refacing is less than a 1 day job and not as 'big' in terms of labor. Do any of you guys reface cabinets? Are you making money doing it?

mickeyco

No.

We did one years ago and only because the person was selling the home and the cabinets and counter tops were "tiled in" (would of had to remove tile) and the cabinets really needed to be updated. It was a pain in the butt, probably because I'd never done it before and the cost wasn't much less, if at all, than new cabinets. You need special tools and if you have raised panel doors or beveled drawer fronts you can't put laminates over them but you can get replacement doors and drawer fronts.

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CSB

Not worth it. First, its too much work for the money. Second, you cant turn a turd into a diamond no matter how hard you try. Refacing doesnt fix cabinets that are damaged by water, heat, etc, are just too old, or were of shoddy quality to begin with. You save a few bucks (its just barely cheaper than buying new) but only put a bandage on the real problem.

silvertree

I owned a cabinet refacing business, at one time it was a good deal, now new cabinets can be had for not much more money. Well done it looks great, with the excellent products available you can transform a "turd" into a "new kitchen". The downside is, the interiors stay the same and it costs almost as much if you do it well. If the tops stay and the backsplash stays I would consider it. If you haven't actually done one, don't, unless your a master finisher. A good reface is indistinguishable from new cabinets, untill you open a door.

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72chevy4x4

thanks guys-I submitted a bid to replace with a couple of options and discussed w/ the HO the cost difference/benefits of new over refacing....we'll see :-)

vinylguy

i also started a refacing biz inside my current company and it is going over very well. time lines are usally 2-3 days to complete and if proper materials are used it looks like new. its not meant to be able to save the homeowner $ per say but rather time and the incovenience if gutting their old kitchens and the mess that comes with it!
one word of caution tho. invest in a good program to train yourself and your guy's and buy from a reputible company also this helps out alot.

KraftMaster

I'll offer a different view point...

Our average "Reface" generates about 23,400.00 in revenue.

HUH ?

Yes thats right our refacing is renamed Ultra Refacing and it exactly that its a premium service for the clients that have good solid boxes that are well maintained inside.




As a kitchen designer for the last eight years, shoulder to shoulder with my clients I have battled a myriad of kitchen remodeling challenges: soffits, out of level floors, windows over stoves, chimneys and pipe chases to name a few. I love it when my client rattles off five or six things about their existing kitchen design that they absolutely hate. I now know exactly what to avoid in their kitchen remodel, and I know there is nothing I have found yet that I can't fix with a new kitchen layout! I never looked for alternative solutions such as kitchen refacing, why would I? Selling cabinets was part of my job. And if anyone brought up kitchen refacing, it became very clear: I was a kitchen cabinet refacing snob.

If asked, I would explain simply to the customer, that the kitchen refacing process was nearly as expensive as a full kitchen remodel, and after all the mess and inconvenience involved in kitchen reface, you ended up with basically the same kitchen design you had before, who would want that? The kitchen cabinet refacing service provided by most companies, I explained pretty much like this:

• remove old doors and drawers fronts
• sand cabinet surfaces,
• smear with glue,
• slap up plain laminate
• install new doors and drawer fronts
• leave customer with same old floor, counter top, layout and basic look

...and then, the nice folks generally purchased a new kitchen. The neighbors new it was coming the moment I had a 30 yard dumpster dropped in Mr. and Mrs. Happy Kitchen-Customers driveway. A typical kitchen remodel takes between six and twelve weeks, and the dumpster often remains there for almost the whole time, just to be sure that all the debris was properly removed.

My limited knowledge of the kitchen refacing process had me mentally confined to a pen, and I couldn’t see beyond it.In fact, it wasn't until I began to work for Empire Kitchen & Bath, Union, New Jersey that I began to see a different way, more custom, a whole new added value in the kitchen reface process. It took a little time and understanding of the approach, and one main rule to qualify a cabinet refacing candidate, the kitchen cabinet boxes had to be in "good" condition, and in fact many older kitchen cabinets have full plywood construction, or solid wood, far higher quality than what most homeowners will manage to afford in a brand new kitchen cabinet. That meant clearly that structurally the refaced kitchen would have more strength and intergity. Other than that, I learned there wasn't much I couldn't do in a reface kitchen and the process really went more like this:

• remove all old doors and drawer front and drawer boxes
• sand all exposed areas as per plans
• finish interiors of any cabinets with glass doors
• make plumbing & electrical upgrades as per plans
• add custom reface cabinets and make necessary modifications to existing cabinets
• refrigerator gets concealed behind custom panels and a new deep cabinet installed above it
• new flooring is installed
• high Pressure Laminate or wood paneling is applied (refaced)to all exposed cabinet surfaces as per plan
• new Doors are installed with concealed European hinges
• new solid wood dovetailed drawers with full extension soft close drawer glides are installed
• new drawer faces are installed
• new counter top surface of customers choosing is installed
• new roll out trays, base wastebaskets, vegetable bins, liter bottle pullouts, spice racks, cutlery dividers, every convenience you can imagine is available and installed per plans
• new crown molding and light rail
• under cabinet lighting is installed
• and a full custom back splash is added, tile, Corian, granite, customer's choice

That sounded and looked to me much more like a newly remodeled kitchen, and with the right craftsmen on the job, I learned cabinets could swap out their old function for new in the blink of an eye. The fact that most of the kitchen is saved, means I don't contribute an extra 30+yards of trash to the landfill. A cabinet refacing crew generally brings back the debris in the back of their standard work van!

The benefit to the environment is undeniable. This is the ultimate in recycling, and the array of choices of styles, colors, and finishes available rival any new cabinet manufacturer's offerings:

• new crown molding and light rail
• glazes
• hand wiping
• penciling
• high gloss polyester lacquer paint
• natural stains

One of the many benefits to Mr. and Mrs. Happy Kitchen-Customer is the amount of money they save on re-using the bones of their kitchen, it helps afford more bells and whistles in the finished product, kitchen accessories are key to good function and homeowners enjoy their use every day, rollouts, cutlery dividers, spice organizers, and pantry storage systems! Other benefits to consider are that it takes less time start to finish, an average of two and a half weeks to complete a kitchen refaces if they install a new counter top and back splash, the savings yielded also provides additional budget for counter top upgrades and beautiful hardware. Then there is the behind the scenes benefit to the environment, by not manufacturing new cabinet boxes, trees are spared, less cardboard is used, there is a savings on shipping, and the pollution from manufacturing is reduced dramatically. When the replacement doors and drawer fronts are purchased from a source that uses their factory excess to heat their factories and kilns, or re-sells its waste to say the pet industry, you have nearly closed the loop on unnecessary disposal.

These are some of the solutions we can look to more and more, the list of products is growing almost daily. While these solutions may not be for every client, they are for some, are they possibly for you?

Ask yourself, what else can I learn about kitchen refacing, is it for me? Is it for some of my clients? I know it is for some of mine.

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KraftMaster Renovations
Kitchen Remodeling

silvertree

Refacing can be a dramatic and affordable upgrade when done right. There are a lot of things a good refacer can accomplish.

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Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
Minneapolis Remodel Blog
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macatawacab

I am actively marketing refacing and I can tell you the Big Boxes are killing the markets I am in. Very busy.

Just measured a house today with full overlay doors in laminate with good boxes and drawers. Waterfront house that will not sell at 1mil with those fronts. Realtor is ordering product for staging. Going coffee glaze which will darn near match the edging. With full overlay the boxes will not be seem at all and when opened the color is very close.

mhillc

Remember if you polish a turd it will just smere

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Double-A

I can spot edge banding from a mile away. That is my main problem with refacing. that little black line on the edge of what should be a solid wood face frame. That and as the previous poster noted, you have the same kitchen layout when done.

We tried it for a while, but were so unhappy with the results. The clients seemed to be OK with it, but I just couldn't in all good faith say I was. My eye goes straight to it and it looks 'wrong' to me.

We used trained and experienced subs to do the work, more than one, btw, and the results were the same. A nice paint job, new drawer fronts/doors would have looked much better.

Did we make money on those jobs? Yes. Are we still offering it? No.

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KraftMaster

This client is thrilled with the results and we did rearrange the layout. Come on is it really that hard to move the boxes or add new ones?

Its a great way to close lower end remodels and give cleints an upscale kitchen with all the bells and whistles.

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Kitchen Remodeling

macatawacab

If all the comments here about "polishing a turd" are taken seriously I want to pose this thought,,,,,,,,,,,,isn't remodeling the same thing? When you go to look at a remodel job do you tell them to tear it down and start all over? (and I'm not talking about the unique situations where demolition is the only answer)

First off, I am proud to show people the reface work I have done. And I am proud of the remodel work I do. But come on, be honest, when you remodel an old house the trick is "where do I stop?" Money is always an issue. Time is the other issue. You rework a kitchen and then the HO notices how dingy the family room looks. Family room begets the living room wood floor looks dated compared to the new work, etc, etc, etc.

I will not polish a turd. I know a turd when I see one. Grandpa showed me the difference tween ______ and shinola. I have polished some tarnished silver and even though there were a couple of dings and pits from being old, it was a beauty after it was polished.

KraftMaster

Its thinking outside the box... We quoted this new at $225K

This client is in a 20+million home in NJ and guess what ... they chose refacing !

We did a granite floor, custom back splash, and of course the Iridescent pearlized finish in “Rouge”

The transformation was amazing and do you think we made any money ???

Take a look at our site for more info on our Exclusive Ultra Refacing process and see more examples of how refacing can look in our before and after gallery of custom cabinet refacing projects.

It adds great $ to your bottom line and gives you an alternative and in todays economic times you can provide clients with creative choices.

We offer both New and Refacing to clients it depends on what fits the budget and overall goal of the remodel.

Our average New kitchens range have a big spread... from 10k to 120K.

We like to offer clients alternatives and I'm happy to earn the business either way they choose - New or Reface - We do both!

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Kitchen Remodeling

silvertree

That's inspiring to me.

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Vote for Pedro
Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
Minneapolis Remodel Blog
203K Loan Consultant Minnesota

Anti-wingnut

Empire Kitchen King,

Your work is totally awesome, looking at your work and your prices, maybe it should be refered to as "in situ cabinet remodeling", or something such as that. Like many portions of construction, the ad hoc bottom end work has really marginalized cabinet refacing.

Now, back to 4X4. I think a moderate cabinet package would look better, than a moderate refacing package.

Donnie631

I have seen a lot of botched refacing jobs, I have only installed new cabinets, no refacing. I have also switched markets from the NE to the Florida panhandle. I get more questions about a facelift for a kitchen and not so much for replacing and redesigning a kitchen.

I take a lot of pride in my work and extensively photograph every job. If I were to stumble onto the right mentor, I'd consider refacing a viable option to add to my business for potential clients to consider. I'd rather learn something new and add it to my abilities than to shy a client away, or lose their business in this economy.