Kitchen Craft Cabinets

 
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:38 PM   #1
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Kitchen Craft Cabinets


Has anyone worked with Kitchen Craft Cabinets? What was your opinion of them in terms of quality, customer service, and where are they price-wise versus some of the most common brands?

Thanks for any info.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:13 PM   #2
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


I have never used Kitchen Kraft, but my cabinet rep carries that line. I was surprised by how cheap they were cost wise and how decent they were for the money. They are considerably less expensive than KraftMaid and from what I can tell, just about the same quality wise. Not sure about the finish. K/M has a decent finish.

Edit to add: If I remember correctly, dove tail drawer boxes and soft close guides are standard on Kitchen Kraft. I could be mistaken, though.

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Old 05-07-2010, 11:17 AM   #3
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


The Kitchen Craft look like a pretty decent cabinet. I understand they are a framelss with particle board ends standard, I'd like to hear from anyone with experience with them as to how good quality they are. Thanks.

Last edited by KG007; 05-07-2010 at 11:18 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:51 PM   #4
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


Kitchen Craft is a good box. My biggest beef is they have a standard box and everything is an option. The best part is they have one of the thickest catalogs of any major cabinet manufacturer. I like this because I do more TV entertainment centers, home offices and libraries then kitchens. What this means to me is I can buy any unusual componant without having to make anything custom. I want to design a masterpiece and build it with the parts from the catalog. And wow do they have some great bookshelf options.

They do have a framed and frameless line. I have no use for frameless because it is so ugly so I never have nor never would carry it. They offer some great ergonomic features and many of the bells and whistles for modern storage options.

Price wise, nearly all major brands have about the same list price. No one charges full list price on cabinets though do they? Oh yea. The big orange and the big blue who only want your little green do. So the answer is finding the proper small cabinet showroom who discounts heavy from list price and today most all do. Only a complete fool would buy from the big orange for list price.

Don't be afraid of Kitchen Craft. I don't even carry it nor have I ever but I have installed the product and I like it so I have no motivation to say anything other then the truth.

And I almost forgot. This is so important. Kitchen Craft is KCMA certified and KCMA GREEN certified. If you do not see a KCMA sticker inside the door then DO NOT BUY THAT CABINET !!!!!

Why Kitchen Craft? Just curious why you chose it.
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Last edited by Jimmy Cabinet; 05-07-2010 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:23 PM   #5
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


My cabinet rep gives me 69% off of list.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:28 PM   #6
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


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Originally Posted by send_it_all View Post
My cabinet rep gives me 69% off of list.
I like him.....
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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:36 PM   #7
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


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Originally Posted by send_it_all View Post
My cabinet rep gives me 69% off of list.
Then you need to go back and bang his head around a bit. My multiplier is .205 which basically means I buy for 80% off list. My ads and advertising brags that we sell for 50% off list and 60% off to builders. I know for a fact that the big orange buys Kraftmaid at .262 so it's all how you hit the REP on the head with your bat.

What brand are you a dealer for? My friends in Santa Rosa Beach, Florida are getting buying Kitchen Craft at .223 and my old store in Vegas buys Merillat at .262

Whatever the case we must discount from list and embarrass the big orange. Did you know that Sears or The Great Indoors sells cabinets for 30% ABOVE list price? Good God consumers do your damn homework!!!! They do this on all their home improvement products. I love when people bring me Sears bids. It makes me a hero.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:39 PM   #8
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


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Originally Posted by Jimmy Cabinet View Post
Then you need to go back and bang his head around a bit. My multiplier is .205 which basically means I buy for 80% off list. My ads and advertising brags that we sell for 50% off list and 60% off to builders. I know for a fact that the big orange buys Kraftmaid at .262 so it's all how you hit the REP on the head with your bat.

What brand are you a dealer for? My friends in Santa Rosa Beach, Florida are getting buying Kitchen Craft at .223 and my old store in Vegas buys Merillat at .262

Whatever the case we must discount from list and embarrass the big orange. Did you know that Sears or The Great Indoors sells cabinets for 30% ABOVE list price? Good God consumers do your damn homework!!!! They do this on all their home improvement products. I love when people bring me Sears bids. It makes me a hero.
Send it all and I live in Cali...Everything is more expensive here.
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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber
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Old 05-08-2010, 06:47 AM   #9
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


I'm not a dealer for any brand, I buy cabinets from a company that carries several different lines....
KraftMaid
Diamond
Kitchen Craft
Dura Supreme
Probably others that I cant think of right now. It's beena while since I have bought cabinets. I have pretty much just used Kraft Maid, but he has priced a kitchen for me in Kitchen Craft. It was shockingly inexpensive. I didn't get that job.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:28 AM   #10
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


Not overly impressed with them. I'm doing a guest bathroom and the vanity cabs have this cheap as* top panels above the doors with a plastic clip that holds the panel in place. 5/8" material for the boxes. The only thing I liked was that they used Blum for hinges and glides.
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:43 AM   #11
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


Thanks to everyone who responded. We are quoting a kitchen against a company who uses them, and that put us at a price disadvantage. They looked like pretty decent cabinets from what I could tell, though not up to the Dynasty or Omega we were quoting.

I was thinking about if I need to add another line of cabinets and was wondering if this would be a decent line if I did. I've decided against adding another line right now - I think we often fall in the habit of "I could close the sale if I just had the right sample..." Reality is no one can carry EVERYTHING and we know and like the brands we have.

Looks like we will wind up getting this one despite the price difference because the client was really interested in the details of the construction and recognized the better quality.
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:19 AM   #12
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


Kitchen Craft, Omega or Dynasty are from the same company: http://www.masterbrand.com/brands/index.cfm

Questions to you Masters:
- I've been doing just imported cabinets - really low end quality. Plan to start doing higher end cabinets asap. How many brands should I pick and try to stick to it? Which ones would you recommend? I plan to get myself a mobile showroom, so picking the "right" lines to have them in my showroom is crucial.
- How do you get to buy at those price factors mentioned? (.2*** etc...) I know I can go to one of the showrooms here and get a max 10% discount (compared to homeowners' pricing). But that's not gonna take me too far.

Thank you.
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Old 05-31-2010, 11:06 AM   #13
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


Quote:
Originally Posted by unhique View Post
Kitchen Craft, Omega or Dynasty are from the same company: http://www.masterbrand.com/brands/index.cfm

Questions to you Masters:
- I've been doing just imported cabinets - really low end quality. Plan to start doing higher end cabinets asap. How many brands should I pick and try to stick to it? Which ones would you recommend? I plan to get myself a mobile showroom, so picking the "right" lines to have them in my showroom is crucial.
- How do you get to buy at those price factors mentioned? (.2*** etc...) I know I can go to one of the showrooms here and get a max 10% discount (compared to homeowners' pricing). But that's not gonna take me too far.

Thank you.
I started in flooring using a mobile showroom. After two years I switched to a conventional showroom and added cabinets around that time. I think they are a natural fit. I don't know how cabinets are going to work using only a mobile showroom, but if you have experience with it already it might be okay. The "mobile showroom" idea is not a bad concept, but from what I can tell it is only effective in about 10-20% of the markets around the country. If you are in one of those areas great, if not, it's a pretty tough way to go.

As far as lines, I'd see if there is a distributor in your area close that carries multiple lines and everything to go along with it that will support you. Normally there would be at least three lines, entry/builder, mid-range, and a nicer line. You are probably going to need warehouse space to take delivery, and if you have a couple of kitchens in your warehouse at once they take up a lot of room. You will need a good installer and you or he will need a truck/trailer/van to deliver them, unless it is strictly cash and carry. You may already have these issues covered.

Some manufacturers/distributors will not deal with you unless you have a showroom, so you need to address that first thing with anyone you talk to.

As to what specific lines, that depends on your market. The most well known names are like KraftMaid, Mid-Continent, etc., all the brands you find at your box stores and can check the phone book and see probably 6-8 common brands.

I'm not a big fan of most of those brands for two reasons. One, I don't really see great construction/price points on them. You can see threads on here, or start one, regarding what the contractors here think of any particular brand, I'm sure. IMO, Kraft Maid is probably a run of the mill cabinet where you are likely to get some issues with a cabinet regularly, but they have some pretty stuff and a well recognized name. Same for most of the rest, with name recognition going down as you list them. A lot are good at knocking off desirable styling and putting it on cheapie construction. Most consumers don't know a good box from a hole in the ground. If you want to do cheapies that's a good thing for you, I guess. If you want to do something you can be proud of you will spend time educating consumers.

Second, there are already SCADS of dealers for those brands. You will often get into "it's the same thing, can you get cheaper than Fred?" If your market is builders you will sell 95% on being cheaper than the other guy, so you better have a REALLY cheap builder line you are willing to do at low margins if you are trying to build volume. Most people don't know how to sell on anything other than price, and that's what you will face with many prospects.

We have 8 lines but I've put samples of 5 of them in the warehouse and don't show them. The distributor for four had (has) really lousy customer service and getting the order correct from a couple of the brands was always an adventure. One is a knock down, the best knock down I could find, but ordering and getting them in decent shape is tough. Mainly, I keep one display to show the difference in construction between it and a good cabinet. I show the other three brands, and our primary market is the homeowner doing a remodel. We can be inexpensive, but I never try to be the cheapest.

I like Armstrong (surprisingly) and think they have pretty good cabinets at reasonable price points for low to mid-range. The upgrade to all wood construction is CHEAP and I virtually always do that without even discussing it with clients.

Our higher ends are Dynasty (semi-custom) and Omega (custom) which are built by the same people and the product line overlaps about 90% of the samples. You can mix and match the two brands and they will match (that is, you can do a Dynasty kitchen and add in Omega). There are a few finishes/door styles only available in Omega.

Their pricing is NOT cheap, but they are a heck of a nice cabinet and the company has their s*** together.

I've found I just really don't like trying to do really low end work, even though we could stand more bookings. Those jobs always seem to be for people who don't want to pay anything to begin with, you are competing against a bunch of yahoos who don't give a crap about anything except getting the job, even if they do complete crap work, and those clients tend to expect freaking perfection out of the absolute cheapest junk they can beat the seller down on.

I've positioned the business to be for someone who values quality and service, even if it is at modest price points. Armstrong seems to fit that niche. Good luck finding your niche and market.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:44 PM   #14
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


Thanks for the tips. As mentioned, I started out installing Chinese imports and do make some money (not always because as you said, these are price conscious customers) but it's not satisfactory in term of pride in my projects and wow factor. That's why I'm looking at better solutions.

I think KraftMaid is pretty popular in my area. I've spoken with one of the custom cabinet makers around here and his quality is pretty good. But I have no experience in pricing these, so I don't know how his price would be. Maybe I'll do a cost comparison between a Lowes' (Thomasville right?), HD's KraftMaid, and one from this cabinet makers to see. Of course the cabinet makers also install his own cabinets, so I'm not sure how the partnership would work. Advice on my proposal to him is welcome.

I already sent request for Dynasty/Omega/Kitchen Craft. I also heard good comments about Mid-Continent too. I'll visit some of their showrooms around here to check them out personally first.

Question: let's say my aforementioned cabinet maker's price is pretty much the same, or 5%-10% cheaper than that's of Dynasty/Omega, etc..., for compatible products of course (species & stain style, door styles, etc...), which one should I pick?

Regarding to showroom, I know a brick & mortar showroom is the best but I can't afford the overhead now. And, how would you know a mobile showroom work or not? I'm pretty exiting about the idea, but to be honest, am not so sure how much help once I got it done.

I'm trying to do a major overhaul of my business (from marketing to presentation, estimate to operation, everything) because I think we're not doing things right. That's why all of these questions. So I do apologize for flooding the forum with questions. But BIG thanks to everyone mentoring me.

Gotta love this forum. Loving it.

Still at work on Memorial Day, wife & 1 yr old son at home by themselves..
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:22 PM   #15
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


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Originally Posted by unhique View Post
Thanks for the tips. As mentioned, I started out installing Chinese imports and do make some money (not always because as you said, these are price conscious customers) but it's not satisfactory in term of pride in my projects and wow factor. That's why I'm looking at better solutions.

I think KraftMaid is pretty popular in my area. I've spoken with one of the custom cabinet makers around here and his quality is pretty good. But I have no experience in pricing these, so I don't know how his price would be. Maybe I'll do a cost comparison between a Lowes' (Thomasville right?), HD's KraftMaid, and one from this cabinet makers to see. Of course the cabinet makers also install his own cabinets, so I'm not sure how the partnership would work. Advice on my proposal to him is welcome.

I already sent request for Dynasty/Omega/Kitchen Craft. I also heard good comments about Mid-Continent too. I'll visit some of their showrooms around here to check them out personally first.

Question: let's say my aforementioned cabinet maker's price is pretty much the same, or 5%-10% cheaper than that's of Dynasty/Omega, etc..., for compatible products of course (species & stain style, door styles, etc...), which one should I pick?

Regarding to showroom, I know a brick & mortar showroom is the best but I can't afford the overhead now. And, how would you know a mobile showroom work or not? I'm pretty exiting about the idea, but to be honest, am not so sure how much help once I got it done.

I'm trying to do a major overhaul of my business (from marketing to presentation, estimate to operation, everything) because I think we're not doing things right. That's why all of these questions. So I do apologize for flooding the forum with questions. But BIG thanks to everyone mentoring me.

Gotta love this forum. Loving it.

Still at work on Memorial Day, wife & 1 yr old son at home by themselves..
My experience with the mobile showroom was disappointing, but I still have the van and it comes in useful for hauling samples and tools, mostly the latter these days. You could look for a CHEAP showroom of 1,000-1200 SF to start.

Odds are it will be different reps for Kitchen Craft vs. Dynasty/Omega. The display for Dynasty/Omega is about $3,400 cost unless your rep can steal one for you from a dealer closing up. Kitchen Craft is a less costly line, could work for lower priced cabinets.

I doubt your cabinet maker is going to be exactly apples-to-apples. Will he do installs, or do you intend to? I'd let him do them if he is reasonable, and if you ever need an oddball piece ask him to make them, or use him as another option to your showroom lines. I've found that if someone balks about the pricing of ANYTHING then having someone make them isn't going to solve it, clients like that want something for nothing.

I've expressed my opinion about Kraft Maid. I'm not impressed much by Mid-Continent, seem cheap, think you can do better with Armstrong or Kitchen Craft or another line and not be another "me too."

My understanding about Thomasville is that Lowe's bought the Thomasville NAME and then had Mill's Pride (the cheapest of the cheap) make a line with that name. People think they are getting the old Thomasville quality when they are in fact getting screwed.

Might try Wellborn. I don't carry them, but it's a name I have some respect for from what I've seen. Probably a thousand decent cabinet lines out there and 50,000 small shops you might try to hook up with. I've tried some of the small shops and never been successful in working with them, though some have some very nice stuff. They just don't seem to be organized to work with retailers.
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:39 AM   #16
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


How disappointing was your mobile showroom? I want a brick & motar showroom too. But 2 things:

- you're stuck to one place. We have to cover a large area (1-1 1/2 hr radius) in order to stay afloat here.
- over head.

Everyone is doing a showroom around here. So I thought of making a difference. Still in decision making process though.

Anyone else has input about this? Please visit my other post: http://www.contractortalk.com/f12/mo...revisit-79149/

Thank you.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:03 AM   #17
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Re: Kitchen Craft Cabinets


Quote:
Originally Posted by unhique View Post
Questions to you Masters:
- I've been doing just imported cabinets - really low end quality. Plan to start doing higher end cabinets asap. How many brands should I pick and try to stick to it? Which ones would you recommend? I plan to get myself a mobile showroom, so picking the "right" lines to have them in my showroom is crucial.
Hi, where do you import cabinets in China? I located in North China and manufacturers I worked with mainly located in Shandong. Some of them make pretty good cabinets. Maybe I could help you and we can work together to make things different. I think you can find higher end in imported cabinets too. I believe that would be high performance cost ratio deal for you.

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