Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-08-2011, 11:29 AM   #1
Member
 
RDBD's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Reno, staging and redesign
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 43
Rewards Points: 71

Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Hi all,

I am working on kitchen update on a tight budget so keeping existing cabinets but just repainting and changing the hardware. One of the most important things that I want to do is to change to concealed hinges but it has proven to be quite the challenge. I have read through every forum I can find but cannot find any that have dealt with my problem.
The cabinets are original to a home built in 1966 and have only 1/2" thick doors so I have to use a "No-Bore" style hinge because cupping would go clean through the door. The ones that I found are not made for the face frame overlay style cabinets that I'm working with. (Working with 1/4" overlay).
(Please search "Liberty 5/8 in. x 3 in. Non-Mortise Concealed Spring Hinge, Model # H01068C-UC-C5).
My solution is to block out the inside of the cabinet to bring the side wall of the cabinet flush with the face frame (1" depth behind face frame).
Since there is no lumber that is a true 1", I grabbed pieces of 1x1 but they aren't wide enough for the hinge to attach to so I planned to stack and glue one on top of the other, then glue that behind the face frame to the inside wall to attach the hinge to.....(trying to save a trip to the lumber yard to find something thats a true 1" but will if recommended).
I have also come across face frame adapters but not sure if one would work with this hinge??
The other problem is finding screws for the door side that won't go through since the ones that come with the hinge are too long. I was told to try to find 11mm screws, but HD didn't have them ...(I know, I know).
I grabbed a pack of 1/2" screws for a trial run on a door that we removed and won't be re-using, hoping that the thickness of the hinge will back it off enough to not go thru the door but am worried that they will go in so little that they will eventually pull free....a little dab of glue for the actual install?? If you think that it would be worthwhile to track down 11mm screws, please say so and I will.

Gus? If your reading this....Help!
Some have said that I can't use a concealed hinge for these cabinets, but I hate the word "can't".....Where there's a will, there's usually a way and I have the will!
Can someone provide some experience with "the way"?
(I've attached some pics of the cabinets as well as my "before" photos of the kitchen, if that helps).

If you guys don't mind, I think I'll post the whole project as I go...Might need some advice again, and surely someone else will find this hinge problem useful as I can't be the only one dealing with 1/2" thick doors)!
Project will include a granite counter top, subway tile backsplash, recessed, undercabinet and other new lighting as well. So far, I've only ripped out a wall oven and replaced with new stainless stove and fridge.
(There's some dead space above those now that I might want some creative advice on too)!

Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Help! No-Bore Concealed hinge on Face frame, overlay cabinet with 1/2" thick doors!-new-pictures-jan-8-10-063.jpg   Help! No-Bore Concealed hinge on Face frame, overlay cabinet with 1/2" thick doors!-new-pictures-jan-8-10-061.jpg   Help! No-Bore Concealed hinge on Face frame, overlay cabinet with 1/2" thick doors!-new-pictures-jan-8-10-062.jpg   Help! No-Bore Concealed hinge on Face frame, overlay cabinet with 1/2" thick doors!-000_0059.jpg   Help! No-Bore Concealed hinge on Face frame, overlay cabinet with 1/2" thick doors!-000_0058.jpg  

RDBD is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   
 

Old 01-08-2011, 12:49 PM   #2
Maker of fine kindling
 
Gus Dering's Avatar
 
Trade: cabinet maker
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 6,062
Rewards Points: 2,184
Send a message via Yahoo to Gus Dering

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


I don't have a lot of time right now.

Search for Blum hinges. They make a hinge call the Minnie (sp?) hinge that has a smaller cup size and I thing a bore depth of less than a half inch. Then you can use face frame plates and skip the blocking.

I'll check in later

__________________
Every parent who has walked barefoot into their child's room late at night hates Legos
Gus Dering is offline  
Old 01-08-2011, 01:17 PM   #3
LRG WoodCrafting

 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Trade: DIY Home Owner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 23,284
Rewards Points: 13,580

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Grass has a 35mm hinge in their TEC line that only has a 3/8" deep cup. It would work, but drilling the hole woudl require you to modify the bit to get rid of the small startng point. Otherwise it would poke through.

http://www.grassusa.com/faceframe.html
__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HusqyPro View Post
Carpenter by day.
Mad scientist by night.
http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut
Leo G is online now  
Old 01-08-2011, 01:18 PM   #4
Pro
 
bconley's Avatar
 
Trade: Kitchen and bath design+remodel
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vashon
Posts: 967
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


By the time you mess with patching the old hinge holes, locating the new hardware, etc., etc. You could have cut new 3/4" MDF slab doors, with proper hinges
__________________

bconley is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to bconley For This Useful Post:
chris klee (10-11-2012)
Old 01-08-2011, 01:23 PM   #5
LRG WoodCrafting

 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Trade: DIY Home Owner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 23,284
Rewards Points: 13,580

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Quote:
Originally Posted by bconley View Post
By the time you mess with patching the old hinge holes, locating the new hardware, etc., etc. You could have cut new 3/4" MDF slab doors, with proper hinges
__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HusqyPro View Post
Carpenter by day.
Mad scientist by night.
http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut
Leo G is online now  
Old 01-08-2011, 01:48 PM   #6
I like Green things
 
WarnerConstInc.'s Avatar
 
Trade: Custom Carpentry Services
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In a van, down by the river. Auburn, IN
Posts: 17,198
Rewards Points: 5,172

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Or just bought new doors.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo G View Post
Thanks for that tidbit of information Darcy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
I don't normally talk to people like I talk to you, however you have the little immature schoolgirl mentality so this is new to me.
Warner Remodeling
WarnerConstInc. is online now  
Old 01-08-2011, 01:59 PM   #7
Pro
 
Mark Siders's Avatar
 
Trade: Interior Trim/Stair builder
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tuscaloosa Al
Posts: 105
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Find the will to put in new doors it will be worth it.
Mark Siders is offline  
Old 01-08-2011, 03:20 PM   #8
Member
 
RDBD's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Reno, staging and redesign
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 43
Rewards Points: 71

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Thanks for the advice.....Making new doors did cross my mind but that idea brought on so many other considerations that I kind of wanted to try this first....
1. I know for most of you this would be a piece of cake, but I've only refinished cabinets before but have never made new cabinet doors.
2. I'm doing this for my Mother and there will be no cutting the mdf in the house and it's freezing outside.
3. I have very little time right now to work on this so just plugging away as I have time....I didn't realize when I suggested it that there wasn't a hinge that would work for this.
4. I'm all about re-using and re-purposing where possible.
5. $$

I know using these doors may not be the best way, but would really like to give it a try and hear if anyone else has had any success.
I did already buy the hinges thinking they were my best bet but if it would work to try the 3/8" cup and modify the bit, I will exchange them and give it a try. (Please advise on best way to modify the bit??)
I just made a mock-up of the hinge side of cabinet, but don't have time to play with the door and hinge just yet.

Gus! Glad you could join in! I tried searching for the one you mentioned but can't find anything....When you have time, I hope you can help!
I'm sure using a cup hinge would be way better than what I'm about to try!
RDBD is offline  
Old 01-08-2011, 03:26 PM   #9
LRG WoodCrafting

 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Trade: DIY Home Owner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 23,284
Rewards Points: 13,580

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Bingo!!

http://www.libertyhardware.com/searc...C-UC-C5&FIN=ZP
__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HusqyPro View Post
Carpenter by day.
Mad scientist by night.
http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut
Leo G is online now  
Old 01-08-2011, 06:23 PM   #10
Maker of fine kindling
 
Gus Dering's Avatar
 
Trade: cabinet maker
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 6,062
Rewards Points: 2,184
Send a message via Yahoo to Gus Dering

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


I looked up the mini hinge and the bore depth is 12.5 mm, too close to 1/2" to easily use it. I was mistaken about it being shallow, sorry.

The link that Leo posted is an option. I used those for a project years ago and found them to be very time consuming. But if you have more time than you know what to do with, it is a workable solution.

Replacing the doors is a good idea if you really want my opinion
__________________
Every parent who has walked barefoot into their child's room late at night hates Legos
Gus Dering is offline  
Old 01-09-2011, 09:48 AM   #11
Member
 
RDBD's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Reno, staging and redesign
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 43
Rewards Points: 71

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Leo...thanks but those Liberty hinges are the ones I have and am trying to use. Problem is, they aren't made for face frame....That's why I'm trying to block out behind the face frame....also the screws that come with them will go too deep into door so either need to find 11mm screws or file the tips down on the 1/2" ones that were smallest HD had when I was there.
On my mock up I reused the original screws that were in the existing hinge but need more of them. (not sure what size they are but they are flat on the bottom & grab really well)

That Grass USA TEC 862 is made for a face frame and says it will work on a 1/2" door!
Darn...now not sure what I should do....use what I have and not be able to adjust them, or order these where I can do some adjusting if needed but have to wait for delivery.
Also still worried about boring for the cup.

I played around with my mock-up, and my original plan appears to be working out ok with the Liberty but I only tried it on one door (see new photo). I'm just afraid now, of lining everything up perfect enough that when the cabinet doors close toward each other, that they will line up perfectly...These Libertys don't have the adjustment feature that the "Grass" & all of the cupped types seem to have.
Nothings ever easy!
Thoughts?
Attached Thumbnails
Help! No-Bore Concealed hinge on Face frame, overlay cabinet with 1/2" thick doors!-new-pictures-jan-8-10-073.jpg  
RDBD is offline  
Old 01-09-2011, 10:54 AM   #12
LRG WoodCrafting

 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Trade: DIY Home Owner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 23,284
Rewards Points: 13,580

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Grass hinge it is.
__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HusqyPro View Post
Carpenter by day.
Mad scientist by night.
http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut
Leo G is online now  
Old 01-14-2011, 01:21 AM   #13
Member
 
RDBD's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Reno, staging and redesign
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 43
Rewards Points: 71

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Think your right Leo...Called local lumber yard and they said they could bore the doors to accommodate the Grass hinges for me. I also called a local cabinet maker who said that he could do them for me too.
I'll make a final post with the exact hinge that I use once I get them ordered and installed in case someone else runs into this problem.
Thanks for finding those hinges for me! You'd think with all of the searching I did and calls that I made that I would have found hinges to work with 1/2" doors, but no such luck!
My plan B with building out the face frame with no-bore hinges might have worked, but I didn't like the fact that they can't be adjusted and if my doors didn't line up with each other, I would have been for going through all of that and still not happy.
Your the best!
RDBD is offline  
Old 01-14-2011, 07:11 AM   #14
LRG WoodCrafting

 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Trade: DIY Home Owner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 23,284
Rewards Points: 13,580

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Grass is my normal hinge line. I rarely use the TEC versions, usually for reface jobs, which I don't do a lot of. The only thing I rally don't like about them is the door is to proud of the FF. But that is the way most of the compact FF hinges are. So you just have to deal with it. Once all the doors are on you rarely notice anyway. If you put an end panel on the end of the run cabinets then you don't even see it at all.

Good luck. Glad I could be of assistance.
__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HusqyPro View Post
Carpenter by day.
Mad scientist by night.
http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut
Leo G is online now  
Old 01-14-2011, 08:56 AM   #15
Still have all my fingers
 
Bergstrom's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Maker
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Maple Lake MN
Posts: 755
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Dering View Post
I looked up the mini hinge and the bore depth is 12.5 mm, too close to 1/2" to easily use it. I was mistaken about it being shallow, sorry.

The link that Leo posted is an option. I used those for a project years ago and found them to be very time consuming. But if you have more time than you know what to do with, it is a workable solution.

Replacing the doors is a good idea if you really want my opinion
Gus,

It it should ever come up again the Blum Compact 38n has a 7/16" bore depth. I am not a big fan of the hinge but it has gotten me out of a few jams in the past
__________________
Killing the Earth, one raised panel at a time.......
http://bergstromcabinets.com
http://minneapoliscabinets.biz
http://maplegrovecabinets.com
Bergstrom is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 09:27 AM   #16
Member
 
RDBD's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Reno, staging and redesign
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 43
Rewards Points: 71

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Finally ended up deciding on the Liberty spring hinge that I showed in my mock-up above. (the same type mentioned by LeoG above...Thanks Leo!)...Before deciding on that, I took one of my doors to a local cabinet maker to see if he could find a hinge that would work so I could avoid running a 1x1 strip of wood behind the face frame to accomodate the spring hinge, but the best he could do was suggest adding a layer of something to the back of the door to thicken it up and accomodate the standard concealed hinges. Not only would the edge of the door look bad that way, but it would have costed more too. I decided I could live with the little bit of "snap" when the door is open (or closed) almost all the way, and the 90 degree opening. I'm used to it and it's not bothering me at all and the clean look of no hinges showing was well worth it to me. You can get these hinges at Lowes.

"Non-Mortise Spring Loaded Concealed Hinge H01068 90 degree Opening" for anyone else stubborn enough to want this. Do not use the screws that come with the hinge on the door side as they are too long and will poke through the front of the door. The 1x1 strip of wood that was both glued and screwed to the back side of the face frame to accomodate the hinge is hardly noticeable once painted)..Also, the hinges do allow for a little adjusting if needed.

(The hinges are done, as are the lower cabinets, but the uppers will be painted after I get the backsplash in so I can match up my shade of white paint to my subway tile. Not doing dark on top as to keep an open an airy feel to the small kitchen....Also...sorry you have to look at my trash : )
Attached Thumbnails
Help! No-Bore Concealed hinge on Face frame, overlay cabinet with 1/2" thick doors!-moms-cabinets-5-2011-002.jpg   Help! No-Bore Concealed hinge on Face frame, overlay cabinet with 1/2" thick doors!-moms-cabinets-5-2011-008.jpg  
RDBD is offline  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:44 PM   #17
Registered User
 
MkG's Avatar
 
Trade: Kitchen Refinish
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


RDBD thanks for posting all of this information. I am facing the exact same issues, same overlay and door thickness. I am currently looking at this hinge http://www.dlawlesshardware.com/nofafrcohilq.html as a solution. Think I can make it work and will be trying on a mock up shortly.

H.O. would be happy with the same style of hinge in flat black but neither of us can find it anywhere. They are not interested in a variable overlay which is easy to find.

Anybody have experience with this type of hinge? Doesn't look like much adjust-ability built into them either.

All comments and suggestions are appreciated.
MkG is offline  
Old 11-11-2012, 09:53 AM   #18
Member
 
Lion Hunter's Avatar
 
Trade: General contractor/ carpentry
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 97
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


any good links to this style cabinet refacing?
Lion Hunter is offline  
Old 11-11-2013, 10:58 AM   #19
Registered User
 
diselboy81's Avatar
 
Trade: Woodworking
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Help! No-Bore Concealed Hinge On Face Frame, Overlay Cabinet With 1/2" Thick Doors!


Did you ever try that hinge design MkG?
http://www.dlawlesshardware.com/nofafrcohilq.html

Wait nevermind, I see they require a 1 1/2" mounting surface on the inside, which I don't have. I'll try to start a new post.


Last edited by diselboy81; 11-11-2013 at 11:02 AM.
diselboy81 is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cabinet re-face (doors only) back@it Remodeling 12 01-14-2010 03:42 PM
Hinge help Jeremy E Finish Carpentry 23 12-15-2009 05:16 AM
looking for no bore concealed hinges on face frames denverboz Finish Carpentry 18 12-07-2009 06:50 PM
Face frame hinging basics Gus Dering Finish Carpentry 5 04-07-2009 07:38 PM
cabinet hinge help romoranger Carpentry 25 01-26-2009 01:49 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?