Brain Storm Help Out Here (CNC?)

rotarex

hey guys, this is just a taught in my head, mind you im young so this is why i ask of the advice of you experience guys

im a GC, and i meet an old man a while back and he told me kitchens is where the money is, now the thing is, i get bored very easily doing one thing, that's why i fit my position so comfortably, now in the future when i have more money, i want to get a shop, and start to do my own cabinets and kitchens only for my projects) not a kitchen person.

question A. do i really need a CNC machine to make my doors or should i hire a retired kitchen maker and let him do the doors
B. How much is a CNC machine for doors?
C. should i not waste my time and spend the money elsewhere and have the economy go round

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Custom Decks
Custom aquarium all salt water
Renovation
next on my list............planting trees for all those material i used

tgeb

Build the boxes and buy the doors.

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

sausagefingers

From all I know, your would only need a router and table and the proper bits to make whatever door you want.

rbsremodeling

Yep Thats what I would do too. Lots of brands and door packs to choose from

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cleveman

A. No, you don't need a cnc machine. What is a cnc machine by the way?
B. I don't know what a cnc machine costs or what it is.
C. I think the kitchen idea is sound. It is a high dollar area. You'll need a table saw, jointer, biscuit jointer or dowel jig setup, probably a router to do this. I find it handy to have a radial arm saw. You'll also need some sanders, probably a belt sander as well as a palm sander. Need a dado blade for your box construction. Youll need a lot of pipe clamps as well.

TheBuildingFirm

find the true costs of running a shop and see for yourself if it's worth it.

or save the headache and get rta cabinets from a reputable supplier and be done with it.

rotarex

I will be getting a shop no matter what anyways, so i figured why not make my own stuff, Cabinet doors, Post caps, ect ect, all the tools are there, except a radial arm saw and about 50 clamps short, i got the idea when i walked into this ol mans garage and he had stacks of doors, told me he makes them when ever (hes retired) and sell em off to contractors... i donno ill see in a few months from now, just on my mind alot

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Custom Decks
Custom aquarium all salt water
Renovation
next on my list............planting trees for all those material i used

Deadhead Derek

if you haven't built a buncha cabs, you by all means do not need to start of doing so in the future with a cnc machine. a good ts, router, sanders and bits, and every cab you may need can be built, and with more artistry than some soul sucking cyborg carpenter like a cnc machine.

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Hand-crafted Traditional Masonic Furniture
and Coffins

Leo G

A CNC machine is good for sheet stock cutting. It'll do doors, but a lot of specialized equipment will be require abova and beyond what you would normally use. A few shapers and cutters is all you need. I would not want to try to make a kitchens worth of doors with a router setup. Good way to do a lot of work and get very little money out of it. They have a bnch of smaller robot router machines out that can do sheet goods too. Much less costly, but have a lot more limitations.

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Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere

http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut

Terrorron

To manufacture solid wood doors on an (even remotely) competitive basis you need a lot of expensive machinery, a couple of expensive carpenters and some good, low paid labor...

You purchase roughsawn (4/4, 6/4, 8/4, etc.) lumber, by the b/f...you do realize this...right? If you're thinking about paying for S4S, you're sunk from the get go...

Figure on (at least) a decent long bed jointer, a production quality table saw (for ripping stock; one that can handle someone running hard maple through it for eight hours a day), a wide bed (24") thickness planer (for glued-up panels) 80 > 100 pipe clamps, at least one auto-feed shaper (with about $5000 worth of cutters, to start), a 36" edge/side sander and a stroke sander (and a proper dust collection system). "Nice to haves" include a wide belt, autofeed thickness sander ($25+K), a veneer press (for exotic center panels) and a second shaper station to minimize downtime for tool change-outs/set-ups.

This is why door construction is outsourced...

Then you need a finishing shop and an expensive tradesman to run it...

Unless you're planning to offer a lot of custom layouts/finishes and exotic species (to customers who are willing to pay for this)...it is not a money making proposition.

Making your own doors gives you the final say WRT material selection and quality control; if the work is done competantly, you will always end up with a superior product. You can make your drawer banks and door/drawer faces so the grain runs "continuously through" on the stiles; it's a nice touch...
Finding people willing to pay three times the HD price for (what they perceive to be) "the same" natural maple doors will not be easy and if these are your clients, forget about it.

Selling a set of doors with four piece bookmatched veneered walnut burl center panels and cherry rails and stiles is a whole other ballgame...of course then you'll need a beam saw attachment for your $25K Altendorf sliding panel saw, to put a straight edge on your fliche of rough veneer stock...

I ran a wood finishing (spray) shop attached to just such an enterprise; I know what I'm talking about here...huge learning curve my friend.

Cheers, Ron

Gus Dering

I have a small shop with a cnc machine. After a couple years with this thing a guy gets pretty spoiled. I'm not going to soapbox too much but this is the only way I see staying competitive in the next 5 - 10 years.
If someone really wants to know the benefits post back, Id love to answer any questions.
Here is the machine and an example of the work





we do with it.

Oh yeah, Buy your doors. Unless you're into some super high end veneer work, making your own doors is throwing $ out the window.

KentWhitten

I've seen one in action and I start to think the same myself. Got to get me one of those!

Gus, I think I speak for many......tell all! Man that's nice! How many axis is the one you have there? What software do you use? How much will it produce in a day? I'd love to hear all about it.

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If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

Gus Dering

It's a 3 axis machine. And it can move all 3 at the same time so curves and profiles are possible.
I has 8 tools on board. And a separate drill head for line boring. That is to say that it can change tools any where over the table. Some have to travel back to the end of the table where the tools are stored in a rack. Others have to be changed by hand.= bad
I use Cabinet Vision software. It's not for the faint of heart though. Software alone was $24 g's. But keep in mind the machine does what it is told by the software. The limitations in what you can do is mostly wrapped up in the limitations of the software and the skill and imagination of the idiot at the key board. (me). So when making an investment like this why limit yourself right out of the gate with cheap software.
Cabinet Vision produces a nice 3d rendering and shop drawings. All good sales tools and for sparky and the head turd herder to get their stuff in the right spot. Once all that looks good I send the cutting info to the machine and print out all the assembly info for the shop. This software is the only truly screen to machine software. They have made that very easy.

So the real juicy part.
Standard size kitchen with 40 ft or so of face frame boxes.
Two guys in the shop
Get to work, one starts cutting frames. (we have our standard stuff stocked and ready). The other revs up the robot and starts cutting box parts.
Lunch time both are done, frames built, 30 or so sheets processed.
After noon they are standing up boxes and clamping on frames.
One day and the thing is taking real shape.

That my friends is not an exaggeration. On a straight run sorta easy job this is how it goes.

The real hidden time savings is at the assembly table. Since we are able to dado all the partitions into the decks and tops all the layout is done. No bringing over the frame and marking crap out with a pencil and square. Just stick the thing in the slot and go. It's right don't worry about it. The frame will work if it was built right. Go,go,go.

I used to frame, ya know
No reason to mess with this stuff if you have a good system. I'm always trying to improve ours.

rbsremodeling

Gus is that white kitchen in the O.C.?

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Gus Dering

Not sure what the OC is.
We did it last summer and I stuck it in the job pics thread some time ago

rbsremodeling

Orange County. It looks like a house I visited in Cali about a year ago the kitchen and layout are identical too it. The owner was an engineer

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Gus Dering

Negatory on that one.
It's in Marin County, Just over the Golden Gate bridge outa S.F.