Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2010, 07:05 PM   #1
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Is it possible to use one of those trough drains to make a barrier free shower if you put it in the entrance to the shower and sloped the shower from back to front so it was high in the back and sloped down to the drain at the threshold?

Anybody done this?
Attached Thumbnails
Trough drain as a barrier free shower?-shower.jpg  
Mike Finley is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   
 

Old 08-06-2010, 07:06 PM   #2
I no spell good
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: No Longer Zoned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,163
Rewards Points: 226

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Absolutely!

Although not sure about an inspector's view.

Also, I'd waterproof the entire floor too.

__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:17 PM   #3
Pro
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry consultant
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MSP, Minnesota
Posts: 3,140
Rewards Points: 2,188

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


The general concept has been used for centuries in Europe and Asia because of the basic type of traditional (concrete) construction. - These are generally referred to as "wet rooms" and are bathrooms and kitchens where water is present in wide amounts because the clean-up, a sanitation is much easier.

Usually, they have sloped floors with center drains and some have troughs at entrances or to separate areas of high water use. - In India, it is common to see apartments built with 2 waste water systems (gray, which is sinks, showers, etc and for water conservation/watering gardens and separate"black" system destined for transport to the treatment system). It raises the cost, but makes sense depending on the labor rates and ecological situation. In China, I saw an $8000 Japanese automatic (go, wet, wash, rub and dry) toilet that had a valve that directed the discharge into different discharge systems.
__________________
Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 40 countries.
concretemasonry is offline  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:22 PM   #4
Pro
 
Dan_Watson's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling Contractor/Helical Post Installer
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,489
Rewards Points: 1,602

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Why not put the trough in the back against the wall?
Dan_Watson is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 08:55 AM   #5
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242 View Post
Absolutely!

Although not sure about an inspector's view.

Also, I'd waterproof the entire floor too.
Yeah, I'm wondering how the inspector would feel about it since it violates code, probably have to give him a call.

I wouldn't waterproof the entire floor, that would not be in the budget and I'm not interested in a wet room design. Probably water proof a foot or so outside the threshold though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
The general concept has been used for centuries in Europe and Asia because of the basic type of traditional (concrete) construction. - These are generally referred to as "wet rooms" and are bathrooms and kitchens where water is present in wide amounts because the clean-up, a sanitation is much easier.

Usually, they have sloped floors with center drains and some have troughs at entrances or to separate areas of high water use. - In India, it is common to see apartments built with 2 waste water systems (gray, which is sinks, showers, etc and for water conservation/watering gardens and separate"black" system destined for transport to the treatment system). It raises the cost, but makes sense depending on the labor rates and ecological situation. In China, I saw an $8000 Japanese automatic (go, wet, wash, rub and dry) toilet that had a valve that directed the discharge into different discharge systems.
Not interested in doing a whole wet room. Just considering a cost effective method of getting a zero threshold for the shower for a wheel chair to role in without cutting down joists to lower the floor in the shower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwaysconfusd11 View Post
Why not put the trough in the back against the wall?
That would mean having to cut joists to lower the floor in the rear of the shower to lower the floor to the drain to get the slope.

The idea of the trough drain at the front is you can raise the floor to the rear. Much easier, cheaper, and possible versus not possible.

Has anybody actually done one? I admit it does give me a bit of a reservation when you're basically designing a shower to empty out into the rest of the room.
Mike Finley is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 09:19 AM   #6
I no spell good
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: No Longer Zoned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,163
Rewards Points: 226

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
Yeah, I'm wondering how the inspector would feel about it since it violates code, probably have to give him a call.

I wouldn't waterproof the entire floor, that would not be in the budget and I'm not interested in a wet room design. Probably water proof a foot or so outside the threshold though.
Can't upgrade to some Ditra for the floor? How about a bucket of Hydro Ban? Come on, Mike. You can sell the upgrade!
__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 09:27 AM   #7
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


You're right, a simple install of ditra would be a compromise to partially water proof the area.

I was thinking more grandly in regard to really waterproofing the room. (you know, like for a total failure of this thing where the water is running all over the floor and as soon as it hits the walls, if you haven't made this a wet room, the water is going to do damage once it runs off the ditra at the edges.

Good suggestion on the ditra it would be a cost effective way to gain some partial water proofing.
Mike Finley is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 09:38 AM   #8
I no spell good
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: No Longer Zoned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,163
Rewards Points: 226

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Mike,

If you take it one little step further, a $40 roll of Kerdi-Band does give you 2" of waterproofing around the perimeter (& Ditra seams). Then the only area of suspect is the door out of the bathroom.

That would be a truly 100% waterproofed floor.
__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to angus242 For This Useful Post:
Mike Finley (08-07-2010)
Old 08-07-2010, 09:57 AM   #9
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


You're right again on that, but once the water hits a doorway you're toast. (I attached the layout.)

Still wouldn't hurt to kerdi band along walls up to door ways, every little bit helps, but in this case the master closet is right next to the shower.
Attached Thumbnails
Trough drain as a barrier free shower?-shower2.jpg  
Mike Finley is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 10:18 AM   #10
I no spell good
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: No Longer Zoned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,163
Rewards Points: 226

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Yeah, that's a very tough call. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable putting the drain in that location with the closet so close unless you tiled the closet too.

Hey, upgrade to heated tile closet flooring.
__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 12:44 PM   #11
Dan
 
ApgarNJ's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling Contractor
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stockton, NJ
Posts: 4,822
Rewards Points: 2,000
Send a message via AIM to ApgarNJ

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Mike, I think you'll be fine. Are you going to do the whole main floor with Ditra? maybe make it so the closet area under the ditra is slightly higher. If tiled correctly and sloped you'll be fine. The water is going to drain out fast into that trough drain. a lot more grate area than a simple 4" round drain most showers do and they don't backup unless there is a clog. If this trough backs up, they have other issues and I'm sure the would stop using the shower before it filled the room and overflowed out the door.

Ask Whipple. I think he's done a few of these or at least researched it.

I still say go for it and take pics!
ApgarNJ is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 12:56 PM   #12
Wood Butcher
 
bhock's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodels/Custom Cabinets/Granite Countertops
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buffalo, WY
Posts: 977
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Would it be possible to build the shower with a regular center drain pitched as usual and then having the trough just being a barrier?
__________________
Brett Hocking
Eagle Eye Construction/Aspen Custom Cabinets
Buffalo, WY
bhock is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 06:18 PM   #13
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ApgarNJ View Post
Mike, I think you'll be fine. Are you going to do the whole main floor with Ditra? maybe make it so the closet area under the ditra is slightly higher. If tiled correctly and sloped you'll be fine. The water is going to drain out fast into that trough drain. a lot more grate area than a simple 4" round drain most showers do and they don't backup unless there is a clog. If this trough backs up, they have other issues and I'm sure the would stop using the shower before it filled the room and overflowed out the door.

Ask Whipple. I think he's done a few of these or at least researched it.

I still say go for it and take pics!
The closet is existing hardwood flooring, no changes there. Just dealing with the MB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhock View Post
Would it be possible to build the shower with a regular center drain pitched as usual and then having the trough just being a barrier?
To do that you'd have to build the shower as usual which makes the permiter all around the highest point, all sloping to the center drain, this would not allow for a roll in at the door way.
Mike Finley is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 06:37 PM   #14
Pro
 
mikeswoods's Avatar
 
Trade: interior remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kane Co. Illinois
Posts: 2,151
Rewards Points: 1,366

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Mike,I think that the door drain will be fine. A while back(6 months?) there was a handicap bath post showing that exact set-up.

I tried to sell that on a big barrier free shower that I finished a couple of months ago---$700+ for the drain was not in the budget--or needed as the bath was on a slab and the floor was getting cut up any way for drains.

I think that drain looks like a great money saver for the situation that you are in.(nice slick look,too)

Do take Angus's suggestion about HydroBan or Ditra---If the user is in a wheel chair the floor will get wet--

I did that bath floor with HydroBan just for grins. Also added a floor drain a couple of feet outside of the shower.

I'm hoping to get a few more handicap jobs from that bath.----Mike---
mikeswoods is online now  
Old 08-07-2010, 07:28 PM   #15
Pro
 
jhammer7's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: So. N. Hampshire
Posts: 432
Rewards Points: 260

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


I remodeled and re-tiled a 8x9' shower room last summer with a similar set up.

There was already a large 1"1/2" threshold into the room that served as the curb. The shower was in a corner with a 4x4' schluter pan and the rest of the room had a small pitch toward the drain area. Additional ditra, kerdi and a small mosaic in the middle allowed drainage to the primary drain area.

I'll try to find some pics.

J
jhammer7 is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 08:18 PM   #16
Dan
 
ApgarNJ's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling Contractor
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stockton, NJ
Posts: 4,822
Rewards Points: 2,000
Send a message via AIM to ApgarNJ

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Mike, you can leave the closet alone, and still try and slope the tile ever so slightly upwards so if any water did drip outside the drain it wouldn't run towards the closet/wood.

I'd ditra the whole floor and like angus said, kerdi band the perimeter.
ApgarNJ is offline  
Old 08-07-2010, 08:46 PM   #17
Builder/Remodeler
 
ChrWright's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder/Remodeler
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 3,680
Rewards Points: 2,000
Send a message via Skype™ to ChrWright

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Mike, have you seen Delta's zero threshold shower bases?

http://www.deltafaucet.com/landing/zerothreshold.html
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC/President @ Central Indiana NARI, Named to the 2010 REMODELING Big50
www.WrightWorks.net - Facebook - Twitter - Carmel Remodeling
Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here
ChrWright is offline  
Old 08-14-2010, 08:24 PM   #18
Pro
 
JohnFRWhipple's Avatar
 
Trade: Linear shower drain installations & waterproofing
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 3,020
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Hi Mike.

Don't know how I missed your posts and pictures here. Your layout is ideal for a curbless shower and channel drain shown as drawn.

Which way do your floor joists run? Can you over lay that and spec the waste and vent locations?

An even safer option would be to install a 5' channel or 2 smaller ones end to end on the opposite wall. I have flood tested Kerdi into a standard drain and my testing with Kerdi Fix and others these tie in's are rock solid.

The entire room will need to be waterproofed with an entry drain and if you can get the finished grill level with the underside of your subfloor. With 1/2" ply, cable heat, grade, Ditra and Kerdi (or equivalent) in the wet-zones you will built up your grade. I like to level it out at 2" - 2 1/4".

Take care around your Water Closet flange and set this trough a Kerdi sheet with some Kerdi fix. On two of my projects we chose a wall mount to take it right out of the picture.

If you plan to add a door remember to record the height needed to remove the drain grill for cleaning.

In all of my projects I have had to mill a custom transition between 1/2" and 1 1/4" to achieve this look. With more fore thought in framing members and beam sizes & locations these looks can be seamless. In the renovation end it's give and take. All my clients love their barrier free spaces and the design suits both traditional and contemporary looks. If you can install a second fail safe drain under the vanity this would give everyone a little extra piece of mind. This is code it seams in Australia and many European cities. I plan to alter my own en-suite to include this second drain and will do so on my own accord as my inspector did not require it and has passed my rough in to date.

Good Luck.

Let me know if you need anything else. I have close up pictures of all four tops drains right now. Call me anytime (604) 506 - 6792

Good Luck.

Can't wait to see the finished job. All your projects are so polished...

Last edited by JohnFRWhipple; 08-14-2010 at 08:34 PM. Reason: missed copy
JohnFRWhipple is offline  
Old 08-15-2010, 08:27 AM   #19
tile mason
 
MattCoops's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling and custom tile projects
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Haverhill, MA
Posts: 1,823
Rewards Points: 1,000

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


You can install a french drain with a grate over it. If that's what you mean to a "trough" similar to what plumbers install afront of garage doors to prevent water from entering towards the inside.

You'll have to remove subfloor, and do a bit of plumb work. There may be an inspector needed to check out any joists that need cutting into (if necessary).


Or, you can mud the entire bathroom floor and find a suitable place to drain water. You'll probably have to do a bit of door shaving and make a custom threshold sloped to adjacent floor covering. May be a great upsell opportunity as well. ("We can even continue with tile in here. Do you like this tile in here too, or should we look at some other designs fo this area?")

Or, you can install a glass enclosure which is watertite at the base with a collapsable rubber dam at the shower door opening.
MattCoops is offline  
Old 08-15-2010, 11:40 AM   #20
Pro
 
JohnFRWhipple's Avatar
 
Trade: Linear shower drain installations & waterproofing
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 3,020
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Trough Drain As A Barrier Free Shower?


Mike here is one concept.

How wide is the shower?
Attached Thumbnails
Trough drain as a barrier free shower?-channel-drain-concept-5-drain.jpg  

JohnFRWhipple is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hidden shower drain system. gideond Flooring 14 04-07-2011 10:10 PM
Tiled shower leaks...Could use any advise at all... Jay22 Ceramic & Stone Tile 17 12-10-2008 06:15 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?