Time for a new tile guy? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

orson · 09-10-2008, 09:15 PM

Ok, here is the rundown:

8x10 bathroom

12x12 marble with 8 "dots"

3x5 shower, tile on 2 walls, euro glass

My tile guy did a decent job. Did a poor job of cleaning up the epoxy grout and it left a haze.

He left a note and the final cleaning packet for the homeowner.

Homeowner didn't do the final cleaning for several weeks (homeowner was making his own cabinets and behind schedule so there was no urgency in that respect)

There is a lot of expoxy grout haze on the tile. I called my tile guy and he have me a quart of a special cleaner to remove it. I asked him if he would clean the grout haze off and he said "no way".

While I accept ultimate responsibility for letting this situation get out of hand I also have a hard time accepting that:

A. There was a grout haze left in the first place

B. My tile guy won't man up and clean it

Am I out of line here?

**Leo G** · 09-10-2008, 09:19 PM

I don't see how you are out of line. The job was not completed. Cleaning the tiles and making them free of haze is part of the job. This is why you hired him and payed the buck, for a complete , proffessional job. Which by the way, you did not get.

Chris Johnson · 09-10-2008, 10:46 PM

Geez does that mean I can leave a screw gun and pipe wrench on site and have the H.O. remove his own forms boards from the slab I poured today?

Mike Finley · 09-10-2008, 10:53 PM

What exactly is his reasoning behind "No Way"?

Bud Cline · 09-11-2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

What exactly is his reasoning behind "No Way"?

The haze may not be removable and he now knows that. He tried, it wasn't, he ran. He knows what he is doing. Epoxy grout an marble! M-m m-m-m m-m-h!

ClassicCarpets · 09-11-2008, 08:01 AM

Every tile person I have had always has some haze left behind. They clean it well when they are finished grouting, but the next day there is some haze left.

Should they come back the next day and do another cleaning? In my opinion yes, but then, some haze is to be expected and HO can do a mopping.

The problem I run into is the HO, most of them, are not expecting a haze and feels it should look emaculant (sp) when the job is complete. I feel like its time taken away from the installer that could be on another job.

However, we provide a service to send a team out if they elect to pay for it by encouraging the HO to seal the tile couple days after it has been installed ... If we go out, the job will be clean and all haze is removed.

I provide the HO with a checklist now and in the tile section I mention that haze is to be expected after installation but dont mop until the grout has cured.

DavidC · 09-11-2008, 08:52 AM

[quote=ClassicCarpets;493204]

Should they come back the next day and do another cleaning? In my opinion yes, but then, some haze is to be expected and HO can do a mopping.[quote]

I'd be one pissed HO.

[quote]The problem I run into is the HO, most of them, are not expecting a haze and feels it should look emaculant (sp) when the job is complete. I feel like its time taken away from the installer that could be on another job.[quote]

It could be just me, but the time to go to another job is when the previous job is finished.

My limited experience with epoxy grout is that persistance pays, waiting a day compounds the problem. We are doing more tile work these days but thankfully are avoiding epoxy grout. IMO it is the installer's task to remove the haze, not the HO's. What we deliver is a completed project.

Good Luck
Dave

Bud Cline · 09-11-2008, 08:55 AM

Using epoxy grout with marble (assuming polished marble) then the typical grout haze IS NOT what you are dealing with in this case. You are dealing with chemical residue that is now firmly attached to the surface of the marble. Sometimes very difficult (if not impossible) to remove if not done immediately. The marbles surface may be damaged now.

jarvis design · 09-11-2008, 11:00 AM

One of the reasons I like using epoxy grout is how easy it is to do the clean-up and NOT have to worry about a final haze. Do it right the first time and their should be no problems!!
As for leaving a haze with epoxy and leaving a packet of cleaning crystals for the HO, you need a new tile guy!

PrecisionFloors · 09-11-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline

The haze may not be removable and he now knows that. He tried, it wasn't, he ran. He knows what he is doing. Epoxy grout an marble! M-m m-m-m m-m-h!

This one, I'd be willing to bet.

It could be just me, but the time to go to another job is when the previous job is finished.

My limited experience with epoxy grout is that persistance pays, waiting a day compounds the problem. We are doing more tile work these days but thankfully are avoiding epoxy grout. IMO it is the installer's task to remove the haze, not the HO's. What we deliver is a completed project.

Good Luck
Dave[/quote]

Agreed

This also goes along with why you can charge more.....Did you happen to make this guy "your tile guy" based on price or references and quality? You get what you pay for in this business too. If he charged top dollar and still has this kind of attitude, I'd make sure everybody you know, knows it too

ClassicCarpets · 09-11-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrecisionFloors

Agreed

This also goes along with why you can charge more.....Did you happen to make this guy "your tile guy" based on price or references and quality? You get what you pay for in this business too. If he charged top dollar and still has this kind of attitude, I'd make sure everybody you know, knows it too

'Tis a sub. We probably have 8 different crews .. one with a 12 man team.

Some arent as clean, say, grout slung on the walls .. great commercial guys, but wont use on residential.

Haze is something Ive been concerned with and trying to figure out the best solution besides making them clean it up completly. Again, most HO understand that the tile should be sealed and I will send a team after installation to do a spic and span clean before sealiing ... its got to be done anyway.

But for even the best tiles guys (in the area) there is still that issue of a small amount of haze that comes up after the fact .. not hard to clean up, its just bothersome to the HO .. not a big deal to us because it easy to clean but to the HO, they may think there is something wrong with the tile, and it looks like crap.

In my opinion, jobs not done till its spic and span, including yard clean up if thats where you did the cuts.

PrecisionFloors · 09-11-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClassicCarpets

'Tis a sub. We probably have 8 different crews .. one with a 12 man team.

Some arent as clean, say, grout slung on the walls .. great commercial guys, but wont use on residential.

Haze is something Ive been concerned with and trying to figure out the best solution besides making them clean it up completly. Again, most HO understand that the tile should be sealed and I will send a team after installation to do a spic and span clean before sealiing ... its got to be done anyway.

But for even the best tiles guys (in the area) there is still that issue of a small amount of haze that comes up after the fact .. not hard to clean up, its just bothersome to the HO .. not a big deal to us because it easy to clean but to the HO, they may think there is something wrong with the tile, and it looks like crap.

In my opinion, jobs not done till its spic and span, including yard clean up if thats where you did the cuts.

No, that's one of the benefits of an epoxy....therefore it should be clean, no haze, when the tile guy leaves.

As has already been mentioned, you definitely don't wait on epoxy to get the haze off....it'll only make it worse.

orson · 09-11-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarvis design

One of the reasons I like using epoxy grout is how easy it is to do the clean-up and NOT have to worry about a final haze. Do it right the first time and their should be no problems!!
As for leaving a haze with epoxy and leaving a packet of cleaning crystals for the HO, you need a new tile guy!

I have to agree with you there, I only have done epoxy grout once myslef, but I thought the cleanup was a snap and I had zero residue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline

Using epoxy grout with marble (assuming polished marble) then the typical grout haze IS NOT what you are dealing with in this case. You are dealing with chemical residue that is now firmly attached to the surface of the marble. Sometimes very difficult (if not impossible) to remove if not done immediately. The marbles surface may be damaged now.

I have a cleaner designed for this very purpose, my initial tests indicate I will be able to completely remove the haze but it's going to take at least 3 hours and a quart of very expensive cleaner to get it off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

What exactly is his reasoning behind "No Way"?

I'm not sure. He offered about nineteen different excuses (including statements akin to "epoxy grout is supposed to seal the tile, that's what the film is" but "No Way" was the only straight answer I got.

I think it has something to do with his feelings about the HO, but that is speculation on my part and irrelevant to me anyway.

Splinter · 09-13-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

"epoxy grout is supposed to seal the tile, that's what the film is"

Wooooo, that's a good one... I'd kick him out just for saying that one...

Mike Finley · 09-13-2008, 10:30 AM

I'm going to take a wild guess here and believe you've made your decision on the question in the title of this thread?

Bud Cline · 09-13-2008, 12:39 PM

Comedy Clubs are always looking for new talent with good stand-up routines. Sounds as if this guy qualifies.

Floordude · 09-13-2008, 07:41 PM

I have never had haze left on any tile installation I was responsible for.

The guy didn't bid it high enough to take the extra time to wait and buff the haze off with a dry towel. That or he is paid so low, he wouldn't make minimum wage if he stayed to buff it off.

That or no one has ever taught him how and why you buff the haze off the day it is installed.

orson · 09-14-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

I'm going to take a wild guess here and believe you've made your decision on the question in the title of this thread?

Yeah, I suppose so. I've had such a hard time finding good subs and I thought this guy was a good one, it's so hard to break up...

ak_aiken · 09-23-2008, 11:58 PM

I assume that this is Laticrete Spectralock Grout.

The final cleaning packet that he left for the homeowner to use is designed to be used one hour after using the initial cleaning packet, long before the grout has cured, not the next day or the next week. This is deffinetly the installers responsibility, with epoxy grout the FINAL wash should be completed 1-2 hours from the time grouting has started, zero haze. The installation instructions note all of this very clearly, check the laticrete website. If a haze is left for the homeowner with epoxy he isn't doing his job properly, plain and simple.

For that matter with cement grout there may be a residue left after the grout has dried, this isn't a big deal to buff off. Myself I take care of this before I seal the tile. If anything is left at the end of the project it should be very minimal, but even then why leave it?

Jerry T · 10-04-2008, 05:31 AM

Here is what laticrete says about it ...