Tiled shower leaks...Could use any advise at all... - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Jay22 · 12-09-2008, 08:19 PM

thanks in advance to all those who take a shot at giving me advice in this situation. This may be more of a plumbing question but since the shower it completely tiled I thought I would try here..

I have a client that recently had their shower built by a contractor a couple of months ago, and now the shower is leaking through the bottom. It leaks occasionally, like once a week, a very inconsistant leak. The 3 x 3 shower was built using black membrane. The floor of the shower seems to be well graded with 1x1 tiles.

I can see the leak from under the floor below and is leaking along the side of the drain, and looks to be coming through the membrane and concrete under the tile. I know the abs and drain assembly itself is not the problem. I'm sure the leak is somehow coming through the membrane that the contractor must have not installed correctly. Unfortunately I cant just take the tiles out to fix the membrane as the the contractor poured cement first to grade, then put the membrane, and then cement again ontop to prevent the membrane from floating.

anyways, is there any suggestion to how I could fix this leak without having to rip out the intire shower floor? Like i said, the shower was well graded and the drain assembly itself seems to be working and the leak is minimal. I was wondering if I siliconed the grout lines, or maybe i could seal the entire bottom and 6" up the side walls with a very good sealer?

Again, any advise or suggestions are much appreciated,

Thanks Again,
JAY

threaderman · 12-09-2008, 08:36 PM

If it's the shower pan you're probably screwed.Was it tested.That's what insurance is for,anything you do will only be a temporary fix, IMO.

BACKWOODS · 12-09-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by threaderman

If it's the shower pan you're probably screwed.Was it tested.That's what insurance is for,anything you do will only be a temporary fix, IMO.

I 2nd Threaderman's answer. Tear it out or walk away and let someone else fix it. Patching it will give you a life time of callbacks.

Jayrek · 12-09-2008, 08:45 PM

have you checked the mixing valve??

I had this problem once, same symptoms, but there was a gasket leak in the mixing valve (behind the tile and in the wall, easy move for water vs. sheetrock).

Cracked open the wall in the closet, shut off the water after I determined the source of the leak, drained pipes, Scraped out old putty, changed gaskets, repacked putty, turned on water, no leak.

Might be it.

Jay22 · 12-09-2008, 08:47 PM

I took off the cover and felt the insulation back there, and its all bone dry..
it could be possible though...
makes me wonder?

JazMan · 12-09-2008, 08:56 PM

Jay,

A few things you said makes me suggest you brush-up on how a "standard" shower should be built. Go here to review the steps; http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html

The grading has nothing to do with the leak. Showers should not leak even if all the tiles and deck mud is removed. The membrane prevents water that gets through from ruining the ceiling below. And....yes, there is supposed to be a slope under the membrane too.

The entire floor and up the wall at least 8-10" and the curb with have to be removed and redone. It's not so easy to do so it'll look good. We usually run into this type of problem when to shower has had 25-40 birthdays and was not done correctly in the first place. We usually rip it all out and start over, the whole shower I mean.

Jaz

Tattoo · 12-09-2008, 09:05 PM

Jay if the shower is only a couple of months old why is the HO not calling the first contractor back to fix this problem?

The advice from the previous posters is correct... anything you do (unless you rip it up and find the source) is just a band-aid and now you own the problem. IMHO any tiled shower should have a KERDI membrane and drain system.

Cheers from a fellow Calgarian!!

Jay22 · 12-09-2008, 09:19 PM

Thanks for the info guys and I appreciate you guys trying to help me out in this situation. You are right, after I agree to "fix" the problem, it becomes my problem. As for why the HO didn't contact the guy who installed it, I didnt ask, I just assumed they didn't want him back..

cleveman · 12-09-2008, 09:51 PM

agreed that you should start over. However, if you don't want to start over, I would epoxy grout the whole thing.

j_builder · 12-09-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay22

Thanks for the info guys and I appreciate you guys trying to help me out in this situation. You are right, after I agree to "fix" the problem, it becomes my problem. As for why the HO didn't contact the guy who installed it, I didnt ask, I just assumed they didn't want him back..

WOOOOOOOOOO! Justa' minute there Jay before you leave this job...Gotta know? Have you installed any type of expansion drain plug/test air ball? Fill the shower pan up to the curb with water and see if you can find out where the water leak is coming from first. Just don't want you walkin' away not knowing.

MattCoops · 12-09-2008, 10:02 PM

Jay, correctly built shower pans will have a layer of roofing felt (or similar) over subfloor, than a preslope of portland cement and moist sand, then a waterproof membrane that wraps up the studs at least 8" above top of curb, then a final slope of mud and your tile.

The preslope is there to direct water towards the drain.

Jaz has some good info in his link to shower pan construction.
And he is also correct in the way to remedy the situation: remove wall tile and backerboard at least a foot above top of curb, demo pan tile and what's underneath, down to the subfloor, and start fresh.

Sounds like from your observation that there is a preslope and a membrane. I bet the membrane was cut around the drain, and pretty much installed incorrectly.

Another cause of shower leaks is the clogging of "weep holes".

If you didn't install this, and you don't have enough knowledge in tile shower pan construction, why would you be dealing with this mess?

If it is your mess that you created, I suggest you pickup the TCNA handbook, and review the recommended procedure for properly constructing a shower "receptor" (or read Jaz's link carefully).

I'm surprised this happened, because pretty much every inspector will have you plug your drain and fill up your pan with water prior to you mudding your final slope. But, there are plenty of shower projects that don't get permits pulled.

Jay22 · 12-10-2008, 02:00 AM

im a tilesetter by trade, and I'm a friend of the family and was asked if i could take a look at the leak, so I figured i would post an ad on here to see if anyone knew if something could be done next to the obvious of ripping everything out and starting from scratch..
ive never built a custom shower by myself, and am just going by what i see and am trying to help a customer who knows absolutely nothing about this stuff.
am i the right man to fix this job, there probably are more qualified people out there. But i do have an idea of what the problem is, and thought maybe there is a fix...
but thanks to all your suggestions, from those of you who do this type of work on a daily basis, i think im going to refer the client to a professional shower installer..as it seems, i can only "band aid" the problem

thanks for all your help and advice guys,
Very much appreciated.
ps. as per the ball test, no i haven't done one, due to the fact im pretty confident the problem isnt the drain assembly as the water is leaking on the outside of the drain..
and as per the inspector question, i havent asked about the permit, but there is always a possiblility the membrane got damaged post inspection.

Mike Finley · 12-10-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay22

ps. as per the ball test, no i haven't done one, due to the fact im pretty confident the problem isnt the drain assembly as the water is leaking on the outside of the drain..
and as per the inspector question, i havent asked about the permit, but there is always a possiblility the membrane got damaged post inspection.

The first step to verifying a leak is to NEVER assume anything. Test everything to determine if your assumption is correct or not.

I guarantee you with enough experience you will find that 90% of assumptions of why or where the leak is end up being wrong.

Always test.

Bud Cline · 12-10-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

However, if you don't want to start over, I would epoxy grout the whole thing.

SAY WHAT? What's that gonna' do pray tell?

Mike Finley · 12-10-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline

SAY WHAT? What's that gonna' do pray tell?

He will have a leaky shower pan, but the grout will always be pretty since it will resist stains.

MMC73 · 12-10-2008, 06:18 PM

Unless the HO is willing to let you rip the existing pan, I would not attempt this. You are looking at a warrently nightmare...he who touches it owns it.

MattCoops · 12-10-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay22

im a tilesetter by trade...ive never built a custom shower by myself...and am trying to help a customer who knows absolutely nothing about this stuff.

A tilesetter that's never constructed a shower? So all you do is floors and backsplashes?
You say the customer knows nothing, and you're gonna help them, but then again you say:

Quote:

ive never built a custom shower

So how are you going to help?

Quote:

i think im going to refer the client to a professional shower installer

Good idea.

Quote:

.as it seems, i can only "band aid" the problem

More like duct tape.

And, whomever said epoxy grouting the floor, since when is grout a waterproofing agent?

thom · 12-10-2008, 07:15 PM

Simple fix:

Put a rain gutter under the drip, pitch the gutter to the outside, problem solved.

The guy over at Home Depot should be able to help you out here.