Tile Over Existing Shower Surface

 
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:29 AM   #1
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Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


Hi guys, I have a question concerning a customers existing shower surface. It is 4' x 6' and has a stucco like coating over the entire area. It is a walk-in shower with a small speed bump like curb. This coating is almost like a plastic drywall mud kind of coating. Anyhow, she wants to tile over it because she doesn't like the hard water stains on the floor of the shower. My question is, what will bond to the existing curb to create a new square curb to tile to? This is only my second shower, so I am unsure if mortar or thinset will stick to the existing coating...any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Scott
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Old 03-04-2009, 02:11 PM   #2
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


are you sure there is no water damage or leaking? usually these old showers require re-building them.

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Old 03-04-2009, 02:37 PM   #3
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


No, this is only a couple years old...it has a stain in the coating that is the same color as the floors. I am going to try and find out who the builder was and find out what the surface actually is...and thanks
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:11 PM   #4
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


If you're taking the time to do the job why not start fresh with correct preperation and know the installation will last.
You'd probably spend more time and money in "mickey mousing" the job halfass rather than removing the odd materials and creating a suitable substrate that meets ANSI standards and TCNA recommendations.

Some sledge hammers, flatbars, and cold chisels are invalubable demo tools, if not a power demo hammer.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:30 PM   #5
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCoops View Post
If you're taking the time to do the job why not start fresh with correct preperation and know the installation will last.
You'd probably spend more time and money in "mickey mousing" the job halfass rather than removing the odd materials and creating a suitable substrate that meets ANSI standards and TCNA recommendations.

Some sledge hammers, flatbars, and cold chisels are invalubable demo tools, if not a power demo hammer.

Agreed 1000%

How can you be responsible for something you didn't install? Covering up another contractor's work in a shower is not something I could sleep with Whose fault will it be if/when it leaks? Thats a finger pointing contest you're sure to lose.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:50 PM   #6
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


Update...After revisiting the job, it appears that the previous contractor did NOT waterproof the shower at all. It rains water through the subfloor when turning on the shower...it is a subfloor thank goodness. The original question was how to bond two surfaces together, but now that won't be a problem as it is all coming out anyhow...thanks, Scott
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:01 AM   #7
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


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Originally Posted by SK Builders View Post
Update...After revisiting the job, it appears that the previous contractor did NOT waterproof the shower at all. It rains water through the subfloor when turning on the shower...it is a subfloor thank goodness. The original question was how to bond two surfaces together, but now that won't be a problem as it is all coming out anyhow...thanks, Scott

I hope you are going to build your customer a shower that lasts!!

Schluter Kerdi and Laticrete Spectralock Grout= "bullet proof"
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:13 AM   #8
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


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I hope you are going to build your customer a shower that lasts!!

Schluter Kerdi and Laticrete Spectralock Grout= "bullet proof"
I am going to check that out...around here, they either use a rubber liner(which sucks imo) or we fiberglass the area...
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:34 AM   #9
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


Hey Jarvis, am I to assume that you can just thinset over the kerdi and start tiling? I also noticed that, in the video, they were going right over drywall...no longer need hardi-backer on walls? Thanks, Scott----update, I see I can tile right over the kerdi, pretty cool as now I don't need the second layer of mud now! Oh and thanks for your help, I really appreciate it! I have to order the kerdi, but I think that it will save me time, depending on how much they want for it!

Last edited by SK Builders; 03-05-2009 at 11:08 AM. Reason: additional question-
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:53 AM   #10
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


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I am going to check that out...around here, they either use a rubber liner(which sucks imo) or we fiberglass the area...
Can you explain the process you use? I am pretty well versed in 'glassing (used to build boats eons ago). What mortar do you use to bond to the glass?
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:30 PM   #11
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


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Can you explain the process you use? I am pretty well versed in 'glassing (used to build boats eons ago). What mortar do you use to bond to the glass?
You don't. You have to put in another mortar bed to tile on...seems like the kerdi might be alot quicker system than two mortar beds and fiberglass.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:06 PM   #12
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


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You don't. You have to put in another mortar bed to tile on...seems like the kerdi might be alot quicker system than two mortar beds and fiberglass.
yup and waterproof on the surface .
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:26 PM   #13
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


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You don't. You have to put in another mortar bed to tile on...seems like the kerdi might be alot quicker system than two mortar beds and fiberglass.
Gotcha. Yeah Kerdi would definitely be quicker.
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:26 AM   #14
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


Quote:
Originally Posted by SK Builders View Post
Hey Jarvis, am I to assume that you can just thinset over the kerdi and start tiling? I also noticed that, in the video, they were going right over drywall...no longer need hardi-backer on walls? Thanks, Scott----update, I see I can tile right over the kerdi, pretty cool as now I don't need the second layer of mud now! Oh and thanks for your help, I really appreciate it! I have to order the kerdi, but I think that it will save me time, depending on how much they want for it!

Going over drywall is certainly approved, however, I do not like it myself. I still install concrete board, then kerdi. I know it is overkill, but, its hard to change my ways on some things!!

If you plan on doing a lot of Kerdi, I would invest in a Kerdi trowel (from Schluter). It puts just the right amount of thinset to set the Kerdi and is a damn nice trowel (made by Rubi)

Another thing, if you are doing a lot of tile work I would suggest going to a Schluter training course. They are normally 2 days and cover Kerdi, Ditra, plus a lot of information on substrates, concrete, etc. I went just last year and can honestly say I learned a lot - this after being in the business for close to 20 years.

Good luck with your install!!
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Old 04-02-2009, 02:19 PM   #15
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


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mr jarvis are you SURE tile on drywall is still an approved install / if I remember right its not in any WET area I don't have my book with me
so I could be wrong but doubt it. Doug Bathmagician Its magic
He meant kerdi over drywall...

You need to slow down a tad a let people get to know you before you throw your weight around and get all sassy... Build some rapport and a reputation first.

Just a friendly bit of advice...take it or leave it.
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Old 04-02-2009, 05:45 PM   #16
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


Just another know it all who needs to do his homework and read up some more.
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:42 AM   #17
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Re: Tile Over Existing Shower Surface


Thumbs up to Jarvis Design! Good advise. I am gonne get myself into one of these clinics.

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