Tile Job Goin Sour, What To Do ?

JumboJack

I feel for the OP...But like many have said you get what you pay for...I can only hope the sub floor is on the stiff side.Because a salon will get a good amount of foot traffic.The fact that the tile is directly on they plywood is bad enough.If it has any bounce to it those tiles will not stay where they where put...

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

ChrWright

I don't think there's any helping the floor at this point.

One of my favorite quotes on the subject:

It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
-John Ruskin

That's a big bummer when you'll be having to deal with it and goober hand-job won't be around past the weekend.

At least she's makin' money!

I have a client with a day care I've been trying to talk into burning her building down for years (sans children of course!). FIVE sump pumps in a finished lower lever that floods on a cloudy day--but she keeps vacuuming it up and cashing the checks.

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Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC/President @ Central Indiana NARI, Named to the 2010 REMODELING Big50
www.WrightWorks.net - Facebook - Twitter - Carmel Remodeling
Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here

Bud Cline

All this input and still no one has asked if the floor structure is suitable for a tile installation to begin with.

Does the floor meet the required deflection criteria to support a tile installation?

Are the floor joists of suitable size?
Are the floor joists of a suitable spacing?
Are the joist spans within suitable distances?

I very much doubt the floor should have tile on it to begin with, most buildings of that vintage won't meet the necessary criteria.

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kevjob

oh come on joist height, span... jeez Bud you would think this is a professional install, oh wait...

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Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

ChrWright

I agree, but what's the point in asking that now? The bomb's already gone off.

I'm sure it's a soup sandwich top to bottom front to back.

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Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC/President @ Central Indiana NARI, Named to the 2010 REMODELING Big50
www.WrightWorks.net - Facebook - Twitter - Carmel Remodeling
Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here

kevjob

yah but he only charged me 3.00 per sq ft.

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Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

JumboJack

I agree with Chrwright.I thought it was a given the the substrate was not suitable...

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

Bud Cline

The point in asking those questions now is to determine if all the recent improvements should be removed and more suitable improvements should be installed. This must be interfering with the business. How long can this BS go on? Get it done right and get it over with.

The point in asking those questions now is also to beat someone over their head for being so cheap. There is a place in the world of repairdom for a handyman but this isn't the place.

It amazes me the number of people that do dumb crap like this and when things begin to crumble that's when they seek help from the Internet. I don't understand why people don't think to research these things BEFORE they dump funds into a predicable failure.

__________________
TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS:
Please manage your children.
Any children unattended throughout the day
will be given a Free Mountain Due at our regular quiting time.

J F

Who wants some action on the over/under (days) for how long it takes the grout to start cracking after it's finished? (if it starts before it's all finished, all bets are off)

ChrWright

Preaching to the choir...

I'll take the man at his word. It's his wife's mess and he's just doing the best he can to deal with it.

Tear it out?

The best advice in the world--yes.

Will it happen---

__________________

Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC/President @ Central Indiana NARI, Named to the 2010 REMODELING Big50
www.WrightWorks.net - Facebook - Twitter - Carmel Remodeling
Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here

JumboJack

No no no no..Logic is not allowed in these kind of threads..Please move along...

I don't think tearing it out and doing it right is an option at this juncture.

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

bwalley

I told you that thinset should not be put on a wood subfloor, that is why I recommended tearing it out and putting in the proper subfloor, but you didn't like that idea, you were worried about the threshhold.

You are going to have a lot of deflection and the tile floor will fail, then you can do it again, hopefully the right way this time.

Without knowing how the house was built I can't answer your structural questions and I am not a P.E.

Bud Cline

Oh how well I know, I'm real familiar with that scenario. The thing is...I am well aware that there are many lurkers out there that will benefit from the information they see here and some may even be saved from themselves in the future. Any tidbit of legitimate information is worth posting over and over and over again.

Successful ceramic tile installations are not as easy as the home centers would have everyone believe. There can be a lot of knowledge needed to installing a successful tile floor that will last for decades.

__________________
TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS:
Please manage your children.
Any children unattended throughout the day
will be given a Free Mountain Due at our regular quiting time.

bwalley

No "Jack Off" is the right term for the hack that did the floor.

One thing the salon owner may want to consider is if the tile floor was not installed properly and a client or employee trips on it for whatever reason (out of level, excessive lippage, loose tile, etc.) they now know it is a substandard job, yet the chose to leave it down anyway.

What are they going to do when granny trips and falls and breaks her hip and ends up in a wheel chair?

Bud Cline

The business operator should probably check with their Liability Insurance carrier to see if any personal and bodily injury claims will be honored under the circumstances. Sure hate to see them end up in court and the other side have access to this thread. Talk about a smoking gun. This is it.

__________________
TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS:
Please manage your children.
Any children unattended throughout the day
will be given a Free Mountain Due at our regular quiting time.

bwalley

Even if the liability insuarnce will pay the claim, he knows a substandard job was done, but is willing to leave it down, which if the P.I. attorney is any good will find out, and will use it to get more money and then the insurance company may deny coverage.

It is one thing to allow hack work to be done in a private residence, it is another to allow it to be done in a commercial setting that has the public in.

kevjob

this is a commercial job where the public will have access?

__________________
Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

BCConstruction

Thinset is fine on a wood subfloor as long as it's stiff and you use a pva or latex bonding agent. Before Tile backer board/Cement board/ditra/aqua tuff and so on was about we always used to tile directly on top of the ply and them tiles are still down to this date. A lot of tilers i know in the UK still tile directly to wood subfloors and plasterboard. But it's like anything. If the preparation is not done, then you will have problems no mater what products you use.

bwalley

It was always my understanding you should never have direct conact with non treated wood and masonry.

I doubt the plywood was treated, but even if it was a cementious backer board should have been glued and screwed to the wood subfloor.

I seriously doubt he guy who installed this job did much if any preperation of the wood subfloor.

mendelectric

I believe the floor structure is sound. The joist are real 2 x 8 at 16 oc and about 15' span from central bearing beam. The floor as I revealed earlier in the post has minimal 3 floor systems on it. 5/4 T&G, 3/4 petrified HW and 3/8 ply substrate. 1/3 of the floor had vinyl w/luan under the ply hence the uneven problem. Thanks for bringing the class back on subject Bud.